TheSmiler
World Chat Champion
Joined: 14 Apr 2011
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G
The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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 Posted: 16:01 - 23 Oct 2013  Post subject: |
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The M3 engine certainly likes to be revved.
If you want to have a go at muddy stuff, I'd definitely suggest bikes - generally faster and a lot cheaper/more capable.
The stuff you were doing seems closer to bike enduro than a lot of what people do in 4 wheels, which is closer to trials - but stuff that the 5 years old and under class on bikes wouldn't have too much trouble with most of the time  . |
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piazza
Brolly Dolly
Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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Moxey
World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 May 2011
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The Voice of Reason
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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Posted: 00:57 - 24 Oct 2013  Post subject: |
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| Moxey wrote: | Soon as I'm finished uni next year I'm wanting to look into the bike trials as is her dad (the cars are becoming a little too costly so he's looking into pre-65 trials), the name for this type of event is Comp Safari, its considered a little more intensive than trials which is what the GF is considering to start out with as its less competitive when she can afford it  |
Comp-Safari or as it used to be called 'Hill-Rally'.. King of the hill used to be a Bob-Tail 3.5 Range-Rover permenantly in low box... did you know that they can do over 60mph on stock gearing, at the red-line in low-range? Those were an AWD (all wheel drive) Club events by the looks, as they were allowing AWD ARIS sand-rail-specials; come along way from a chopped up Land-Rover, but I bet there were a few sections there that favoured the live-axle Landies.
Expensive game...
Trials!
For 4x4 competition, best way 'in' in RTV or Road-Taxed Vehicle Trials. Did you know that the Lotus 7 was originally designed for 'off-roading'? It was based on an Austin 7 chassis. They still run RTV's for 2WD Road-Cars; aparently 2CV's, VW Bettles and Minis are still quite popular. However; for 'cheap' 4x4 RTV I'd reccomend an old Series III Land-Rover. Still the cheapest, mainly because they don't make such a practical proposition as every-day road car; can barely do 60mph and have all the creature comforts of a medieval dungeon! BUT, they are very capable off-road, and the slightly less sophisticated leaf-springs and unassisted steering is very direct and gives a lot of seat of the pants driver arse ache feed-back. Great for helping learn when the things slipping around and making corrections. They are also hardier than the coilers and a tad easier to work on. But main reason for suggesting one is that provided its not too buggered about with and got say a Dihatsu diesel engine in it; it's eligible for both AWD Club events as well as ARC (all Rover Clubs) events, and there are more dedicated LR clubs about putting on events, but you can enter either with a Rover!
RTV events are laid out to be 'Non-Damaging' with the intension that you can do them in your every-day road 4x4; driving to and from event; so has to be street-legal, and under ARC regs, pretty much as standard. AWD Club RTV's have some 'allowances' in the regs and common mods are accetable; but again, for RTV they err towards 'street-standard', and big-lifts, diff-lockers and twiddle brakes and stuff tend to be prohibited.
I prepped my Rangies for RTV, and basically, consisted of adding a sump-guard with recovery-points, a 'farm' hitch on the tow bar as a recovery-point, and putting a fire-extinguisher some-where within reach of the passenger! After Club-Dues, can be a cheap sport... provided you don't break anything!
Not wonderfully 'dynamic' though.. you could call it 'extreme-parking' if you wanted ... object is to drive slowly through a series of 'gates' without touching any of them or loosing forwards momentum... longer wheel base vehicles (100") though get a 'shunt' and can do one three point in a section to line up or make a tight turn. Section will be marked out on a tight woody track, or on a tricky side-slope in a field, often accross a ditch, or perhaps a stream. Its slow, its technical and its challenging... its not fast... but thats trials in general.
Progression fro that is CCV or Cross-Country-Vehicle trials; which are the non-road-legal or heavily modified Landies and buggies, also known as 'Compers'. This starts getting pricey; and to be entry level competative these days, you need a couple of grands woth of extreme spring kit before you start building your buggy!
Though an aquaintence of mine; a few years ago; built a Series III 'Clubman', he used as an every-day car; and competed in CCV Trials, Challenge Events and Hill-Rally. Did quite well with it, and usually gave a fair few of the more specialist modded coilers a run for their money.
BIKES....
Pre-65 is NOT the place to go looking for 'cheap' trials any more. Hasn't been for a long time. When I started riding trials, oooh... 1985? The Pre-65 scene was polarising between the old-boys running old obsolescent rigids and four-bangers, for fun, on a penny anti-budget, and a new breed of 'Classic-Buff' doing no expense spared restorations and then nit-picking over the regs. Also as the restorers scene started attracting big money; keeping an old brit bike trials worthy and even notionally 'original' started to get expensive.
Has got better in recent years; but there is still a bit of a three ring circus, in one camp, the bikes bear almost no relation to the production bikes of the pre-65 era; they have Japanese carburettors; electronic ignitions, plastic mudguards and italian shock-absorbers; they are built purely to be competative, within the rules that they have to have crank-cases that are, or are a like for like replacement of something available to general public pre-65.
In the next camp; you have the concourse crew; where the bikes are either exactly to the brochure or spec that would have been available in the 60's and built with as much original period parts as possible; Amal carbs, ali mudguards, points ignition and a perfume of castrol R!
In between, a mixed bag of folk running whatever they can get there hands on and keep running, with more or less tokenism towards either other camp as far as prepping for competativeness or originality.
However; either which way round; the bikes ent cheap; and something like a trials ready Triumph Tiger-Cub is likely to set you back at least two grand, and that's a budget starter bike! Want a Greeves 'Scottish'... go talk to the Bank-Manager about a second mortgage!
TWIN SHOCK TRIALS
Wot I did for many decades... mainly 'cos that was what was contemprary when I started.... and they invented a class for it when the mono-shock bikes came along
https://scontent-a-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1239549_651591698199084_3270119_n.jpg
(GoodGrief! I just remembered, THAT was the first trial I wore a crash hat in! I had to buy it specially at the last minute when I got my entry back, and it had warning "No Hat - No Ride" on the bottom! 1995 that would have been!)
Until maybe ten years ago, this was the 'budget' class for 'old' bikes. After the way the Pre-65 class had gone; they deliberately didn't make the class time bound; it was defined by the features of air-cooled; twin-shocked and drum-braked; with the ethos of keeping it cheap for the clubman, while allowing some scope to get creative with old road-bikes and stuff and not get bogged down with brocure originality or anything; and for a long while it worked. I've ridden in class alongside blokes with old '70's Bultacos; 80's Yam TY's or Honda TL's and 'specials' based on almost anything!
Recently, as in the last decade though; the old T-Shock era bikes have started to fall into the hands of the casual restorer; and some events have been more a dirty concourse d'elegance, and prices bikes gone up.... but that said, you can still get a t-shock Yamaha TY175 or 250 for well under a grand, in trials ready condition, and THAT is what I'd reccomend as a starting place for 'classic' trials.
The Yam TY's were the most popular through the 80's. They are well considered, well supported and easy to live with, and as yet aren't commanding daft price tags.
Harder to live with, and generally less 'useful' bikes like the Fantics... which I would seriousely advice any-one to steer well clear of unless they really know thier Fantics... or Montesa's like mine; are getting into the hands of restorers who equate 'rare' with 'valuable'! They only ever imported I think 200 Cotas like mine into the UK, where Yamaha probably imported 2000 TY's of each capacity a year! Rare means it was not popular.... and usually for good reason! Hard to live with and or not very good!
CHEAP TRIALS
However, for realy cheap trialing? Cheapest bikes are the early monos. Thinks like the Yamaha TY 'Pinky'. Steel frame, mono-shock suspension and a disc front brake, but still air-cooled, some clubs will let these early mono's run with the T-Shocks... but in the 'Clubman' class; for contemprary riders, makes little odds; its you and the terrain and you get a score, and you try and do better each lap or each event; so doesn't have to matter so much what you are riding.
However; making life 'easy' to get into the sport, the more contemprary bikes, the water-cooled machines? I have to say they are just SO much easier to ride! My old Cotas no heavy-weight, at under 70Kg... but some of these more modern bikes are under 50kg! And with the weight much better placed and with much more sophisticated suspension. Getting cheap, too. Top recommend for contemprary machine would be the Montesa Cota 315R. Last of teh championship two-strokes. Mainly because it was the most popular, longest running and is the best supported clubman mount about. You can pick up ratters for under £500 these days, though more complicated, and involved to work on, I'd look up the market for one in better fettle less likely to want as much attention. But again, can still get you in the game for about a grand.
BUT best advice I can offer if you have a crack at it? Dont worry too much about the bike. GOOD BOOTS and GOOD TYRES, they are the important bits to have. Whatever you budget for everything else; budget £100 for new tyres, and propper trials 'slicks' not block-tread trail tyres; and about as much again for good TRIALS boots. MX or enduro boots are too rigid; road, touring or 'adventure sport' boots either too rigid and or too un-grippy. You'll sped a lot of time 'paddling' as a newb, and like as not even more off the bike clambering about the sections, either 'pre-walking' them to see what you got to face, and or pulling the bike up and out of whatever hole you've fallen in!
But it is 'cheap' and certainly once you have the bike and kit, cheapest form of motorsport to tale part in; Club Membership is generally under £20 a year, then about the same to get your ACE 'affiliate' membership with 'Trials' competition licence. You DONT need a medical or annual competition Insurance or anything; just to join a club, so under £50, sorts you for the eyear; then its generally under a tenner per event; though prices vary. Some clubs have no annual sub; and a higher event price including 'day' membership; others have the higher annual sub and lower event fees. Either way though, you are talking £50 upfront, and tenner an event in admin... as compared to gawd knows how much these days for MX or Road-Racing in full competition licence, medical, insurance, and then event entrances! Add £5 for fuel, and your pretty much set.
ONE thing... for early outings, don't expect to drive home after. Take a designated driver/helper with you! You'll be shattered after four-hours of riding and probably not even want to load the bike back up, let alone if you are a bit bruised! You can even sign the des-driver up as an observer... she can pull as many faces as she wants while holding a clip-board and scoring people through a section; and most clubs will even PAY her for watching you all fall off, with a bottle of wine or a box of chocolates or something, at the end of the event!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Haha I'm sure she'll love that 
but I'm sure if I direct her here then certain pics of me at Creamfields will be used in retaliation.
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