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M62 speed cameras are live even when gantry signs are off

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Peirre oBollox
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PostPosted: 07:00 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: M62 speed cameras are live even when gantry signs are off Reply with quote
An interesting post in this weeks Pocket GPS World newsletter
https://www.pocketgpsworld.com/M62-cameras-are-live-even-when-gantry-signs-are-off-4067.php
Pocket GPS World wrote:
It has come to light the speed cameras, installed on gantries over the M62, are live at all times. Until this information was revealed, it was believed that they were only active when matrix signs were illuminated to indicate a reduced speed limit.

The news came to light in an exchange between a motorist and West Yorkshire Police via Twitter when they queried being flashed by gantry cameras when the speed limit signs were off.

It has since been clarified that the cameras, managed by the Highways Agency, are capable of enforcing both variable speed limits and the national speed limit and can operate independently of the matrix speed signs.

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Tungtvann
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why am I not surprised? I'm still very cautious of gantry cameras, wherever I go and no matter what people claim. I've been past them at over 80, but I wouldn't risk doing over 90.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know where the idea has come from that road users need to be given fair warning of speed cameras.

As long as a camera has been Home Office rubberstamped, it can be used any way the local Farce or their outsourced revenue collectors feel like. Any restrictions on use are purely voluntary and subject to change on a whim. They could hide them in hollowed out cows and still get convictions.
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 10:32 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
I don't know where the idea has come from that road users need to be given fair warning of speed cameras.

As long as a camera has been Home Office rubberstamped, it can be used any way the local Farce or their outsourced revenue collectors feel like. Any restrictions on use are purely voluntary and subject to change on a whim. They could hide them in hollowed out cows and still get convictions.

https://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_01/horseboxRFE_468x299.jpg
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map
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm thinking the scope for a cock-up are enormous there...
pocketgpsworld.com wrote:
...capable of enforcing both variable speed limits and the national speed limit and can operate independently of the matrix speed signs...

I'm thinking matrix sign is off, last set to 50mph. The speed camera has a SNAFU and not reset. You go through at 70mph and get a ticket for being 20mph over the limit. How would you prove your case?
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
I don't know where the idea has come from that road users need to be given fair warning of speed cameras.

As long as a camera has been Home Office rubberstamped, it can be used any way the local Farce or their outsourced revenue collectors feel like. Any restrictions on use are purely voluntary and subject to change on a whim. They could hide them in hollowed out cows and still get convictions.


I thought that the difference was that if they were clearly marked they are safety cameras and if not they are enforcement cameras.

The important bit being that safety camera money goes to the safety partnership thingamy which means police budget can be directed elsewhere* whereas enforcement goes to the government instead.


*Which is a roundabout way of saying the money goes to the police.
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MeatHelmet
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Any idea what they will be set to trigger at when the signs or off?

i'm going of the old rule of thumb - speed limit +10%, so 77?
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metalangel
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:

I'm thinking matrix sign is off, last set to 50mph. The speed camera has a SNAFU and not reset. You go through at 70mph and get a ticket for being 20mph over the limit. How would you prove your case?


In the same way you prove that you had to go through a red light into an intersection to allow an ambulance to get past you.
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G
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Same was shown to be the case for the M25 some time ago I believe.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
metalangel wrote:

In the same way you prove that you had to go through a red light into an intersection to allow an ambulance to get past you.


Absolute offence so that isn't a defence.

All the best

Keith
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Tungtvann
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
So you must NEVER EVER EVERRRR go through a red light? No matter what?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tungtvann wrote:
So you must NEVER EVER EVERRRR go through a red light? No matter what?


You can argue that it would have been dangerous for you to stop, but that'll be tricky to prove and is likely to get you into even more trouble.

If, however, you are already stopped, you can't argue that. That's why I never get out of the way of jam sandwiches at the lights no matter how much they blare their siren and flash their silly blue lights.
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TheSmiler
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
metalangel wrote:

In the same way you prove that you had to go through a red light into an intersection to allow an ambulance to get past you.


Absolute offence so that isn't a defence.

All the best

Keith


I've been in 3 cars when the driver has been at the front of a queue with a red light and emergency service behind (2 police cars and one fire engine). They had no where to go so they have gone straight through.

None of them received any kind of punishment via points or fines.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:07 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheSmiler wrote:

I've been in 3 cars when the driver has been at the front of a queue with a red light and emergency service behind (2 police cars and one fire engine). They had no where to go so they have gone straight through.

None of them received any kind of punishment via points or fines.


Doesn't mean it is a legal defence, rather that they didn't bother to do them

All the best

Keith
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G
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
TheSmiler wrote:

I've been in 3 cars when the driver has been at the front of a queue with a red light and emergency service behind (2 police cars and one fire engine). They had no where to go so they have gone straight through.

None of them received any kind of punishment via points or fines.

I've had a police bike sat behind me at something like 100mph and didn't get done.
Doesn't make it legal and that I wouldn't get done in other circumstances.

(I was on bikesafe.)
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Shinigami
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
I'm thinking the scope for a cock-up are enormous there...
pocketgpsworld.com wrote:
...capable of enforcing both variable speed limits and the national speed limit and can operate independently of the matrix speed signs...

I'm thinking matrix sign is off, last set to 50mph. The speed camera has a SNAFU and not reset. You go through at 70mph and get a ticket for being 20mph over the limit. How would you prove your case?


Just to add to this, i've been along there where the matrix signs are absolutely fubar'd, on one occaison 1st lane was 40, 2nd was 50, outside was 30.....wtf
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 11 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
metalangel wrote:
map wrote:

I'm thinking matrix sign is off, last set to 50mph. The speed camera has a SNAFU and not reset. You go through at 70mph and get a ticket for being 20mph over the limit. How would you prove your case?


In the same way you prove that you had to go through a red light into an intersection to allow an ambulance to get past you.


I would be loathe to do so. The parasites at the 'safety' camera mafia tend to collect the extortion on red light camera offences where the vehicle triggered it getting out of the way of an emergency vehicle with blues and twos on, even those with the cojones to take it to court have been found guilty.

There was a thread on a police forum on the subject and a number of posters purporting to be warranted constables claimed they would NIP a vehicle that crossed the solid white line on the red light to let an emergency vehicle pass. Middle Finger
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Vracktal
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Joncrete Cungle wrote:


I would be loathe to do so. The parasites at the 'safety' camera mafia tend to collect the extortion on red light camera offences where the vehicle triggered it getting out of the way of an emergency vehicle with blues and twos on, even those with the cojones to take it to court have been found guilty.

There was a thread on a police forum on the subject and a number of posters purporting to be warranted constables claimed they would NIP a vehicle that crossed the solid white line on the red light to let an emergency vehicle pass. Middle Finger


Isn't it also an offence not to move out of the way to let an emergency vehicle pass though?

Sounds like a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 09:46 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vracktal wrote:


Isn't it also an offence not to move out of the way to let an emergency vehicle pass though?

Sounds like a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation.

Don't think so?

Quote:
219

Emergency and Incident Support vehicles. You should look and listen for ambulances, fire engines, police, doctors or other emergency vehicles using flashing blue, red or green lights and sirens or flashing headlights, or Highways Agency Traffic Officer and Incident Support vehicles using flashing amber lights. When one approaches do not panic. Consider the route of such a vehicle and take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs. If necessary, pull to the side of the road and stop, but try to avoid stopping before the brow of a hill, a bend or narrow section of road. Do not endanger yourself, other road users or pedestrians and avoid mounting the kerb. Do not brake harshly on approach to a junction or roundabout, as a following vehicle may not have the same view as you.

No 'must's or links to legislation there, at least.
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vracktal wrote:
Joncrete Cungle wrote:


I would be loathe to do so. The parasites at the 'safety' camera mafia tend to collect the extortion on red light camera offences where the vehicle triggered it getting out of the way of an emergency vehicle with blues and twos on, even those with the cojones to take it to court have been found guilty.

There was a thread on a police forum on the subject and a number of posters purporting to be warranted constables claimed they would NIP a vehicle that crossed the solid white line on the red light to let an emergency vehicle pass. Middle Finger


Isn't it also an offence not to move out of the way to let an emergency vehicle pass though?

Sounds like a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation.


Some others posing as warranted constables claimed to have NIPed drivers who did not move. One that stuck in my mind was one claim that a driver who refused to break the law by driving over the stop line ended up before the beak and copped 3 points and a £500 fine. Thumbs Down
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G
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PostPosted: 10:14 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Do you know what offence? Got a link to it?

Quote:
while complying with all traffic signs

Suggests otherwise from the highway code.
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Joncrete Cungle
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 12 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Had a quick Google.

https://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/124490-failing-to-move-for-emergency-vehicle/?p=2185066

Quote:
To add to the mix, i've reported a driver who failed to move out of my way (police) and also an ambulances. We were escorting the ambulance that had a patient who was deteriorating in the back. The vehicle in question had ample time to move but didn't. Driver report for driving without due care and attention. Few weeks ago the driver went to court and pleaded guilty - he was given 4 points and over £600 fine.


Also see

https://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/121080-moving-out-of-the-way-of-an-emergency-vehicle/

https://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/124490-failing-to-move-for-emergency-vehicle/

https://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/133541-going-through-a-red-light-to-allow-a-police-car-through/
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