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Does anyone work out to build muscle?

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Jamie.
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Does anyone work out to build muscle? Reply with quote
The past few weeks I have been doing regular sessions of press-ups, sit-ups, tricep, bicep and pectoral workouts at home with the intention of building some muscle in those areas. I don't have any silly expectations of how quickly muscle grows, I know it takes time and effort.

My question is this: Is what I'm doing pointless without eating the correct foods and taking supplements to see any growth? I don't really want to start eating lots of meat and protein shakes etc if I'm honest.

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lihp
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You don't need supplements, however, you will have very very little gain or benefit from exercising with a poor diet still.

You need both for effective progress
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Jamie.
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PostPosted: 10:20 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
PhilDawson8270 wrote:
You don't need supplements, however, you will have very very little gain or benefit from exercising with a poor diet still.

You need both for effective progress


I wouldn't consider myself to have a poor diet but I only eat twice a day, at 12pm and 6pm.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think its more important with regards to how you train than how you eat for the most part, however its a generally accepted rule that you should be consuming 1.5g-2g of protein per lb of bodyweight. I doubt you have to even be that anal about it but its not hard to acheive, 1 protein shake per day, few eggs, steak for dinner etc.

I guess the question is, are you looking to build strength or size, or both?

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lihp
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You need a healthy and balanced diet with the correct amounts of proteins, vitamins, minerals, etc
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Dalemac
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you don't eat breakfast, then good luck with building muscle, getting fitter and loosing weight.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 10:48 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dale_Mckeown wrote:
If you don't eat breakfast, then good luck with building muscle, getting fitter and loosing weight.


O Rly?

I beg to differ.

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MarJay
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dale_Mckeown wrote:
If you don't eat breakfast, then good luck with building muscle, getting fitter and loosing weight.


Agreed.

It's a commonly held belief that little and often is the best way to nourish the body from a fitness point of view.

You should also try to stick to the handfuls principle for each meal IE two handfuls of veg, a handful of carbs and a handful of protein. This means using ones own hand to sensibly gauge the quantity of each item on your plate. It doesn't mean a literal handful!

So, I was told to have cereal and fruit for breakfast (not more than 1hr after waking) 2hrs later have some fruit, 2-3hrs later have lunch (on the handfuls principle), 2-3 hrs later have yoghurt or something, then 2-3hrs later have dinner and 2hrs after that have an evening snack.

You also don't tend to build up lots of muscle mass from bodyweight only exercises (as I am doing at the moment). It is also pretty well known that exercise and a bad diet don't lose weight or gain muscle really.
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garth
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Get on the steroids mate. It's what all the cool kids do.

Then pose everywhere.

This will work particularly well if you were bullied in school.
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G
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Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 11:17 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dale_Mckeown wrote:
If you don't eat breakfast, then good luck with building muscle, getting fitter and loosing weight.

Very 'last millennium' thinking (unless a troll).

How many times you eat a day should make a lot less difference than the macro-nutrient ratios of what you're eating and how much.

For the OP: you'll get best results for building muscle on sets of around 8-15 I believe. This generally means using weights for a fair bit - as you should be able to do more than bodyweight alone (though you can adjust things like push ups to make them harder.)
Note that if you are aiming for strength rather than purely more muscle, around 5 reps per set is best. Having good general strength is often the best start to building muscle.
Have a look at the 'starting strength' program if you're interested in this - is using weights.

To build muscle you do need to be getting a decent amount of protein. However, you may see some initial gains with less.
Have you tried protein shakes? There's plenty of tasty examples out there.
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prizefighter
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Muscle building is 80% Nutrition, 20% Exercise.

There's no point in exercising to build muscle without feeding your muscles.

Eat big to get big. Simple.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Survival-Fittest-Anatomy-Physical-Performance/dp/0224075071

Read this. It's an excellent book written by the doctor (and expeditionist in his own right) who went with Sir Ranulph Fiennes on the Artic trips etc.
Well written with a lot of really easy to absorb science on nutrition and how our bodies work.

Seriously, read it. (Can you tell I liked it?)
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L4Isoside
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
prizefighter wrote:
Muscle building is 80% Nutrition, 20% Exercise.

There's no point in exercising to build muscle without feeding your muscles.

Eat big to get big. Simple.


You don't want to over eat though.

I'd advise just keeping a clean diet, 3-4 meals a day with a good source of carbs and protein. You don't NEED a solid diet, but the better the diet, the better the results. A higher carb diet = more energy to workout and supplement your body, the higher protein for rebuilding the muscle.

Also, the more intensity you have in the gym/ when you work out, the better the results too.

For mass, anywhere between 6-10 reps would be best. Small muscle movements e.g. abs stick with 15-20 reps. Baring in mind that is, performing a move with a weight where you struggle to hit over 10 reps, over 3 sets. Once it becomes easy, up with weight.

I've gained about 5-7 lbs in muscle in the last 10 months or so, with little to no fat gains. It's a slow process, but the results are noticeable. It takes time, effort and dedication to get a good body.

Also I used to only eat twice a day but I struggled with energy etc. Now I eat 4 times a day at least. Nothing too silly either, 1 meal could just be a breakfast (even a breakfast/ oat bar is better than nothing). Dinner is usually something naturally high in protein e.g. a steak.

You don't need any supplements at all. If there was anything to use though, a protein shake would be my priority. I actually mix protein shake with some blended oats for a "pre workout meal" about 30-60 mins before I go to the gym.

You will find lots of people have lots of different advice depending on what works for them, so research is probably the key Laughing.
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G
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Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:

Agreed.

It's a commonly held belief that little and often is the best way to nourish the body from a fitness point of view.

It is certainly a commonly held belief.
It has been shown to not be true; along with the world being flat and so on Wink.

I couldn't find the page I was looking for, but this one has a good bit of scientific backup:
https://www.gnolls.org/2181/the-breakfast-myth-part-2-the-art-and-science-of-not-eating-breakfast/
And another one with links to studies: https://stronglifts.com/7-reasons-why-you-should-not-eat-breakfast/

The 'handfuls' thing is a vague approximation and doesn't take account that many vegetables (even presuming you're ignoring potatoes) are pretty carb rich. Similarly, many 'carby' foods have a lot higher macro nutrient density than others. Two handfuls of protein a day doesn't sound much to me if you're looking to build muscle, but again, will depend what - if wer're talking protein powder in powder form, that'll do you just fine!
If we're talking pots of sugar free jelly, less so!

My usual advice is to use a site like myfitnesspal, which allows you to very easily track what you are eating, so you can meet the chosen goals - be they set up for losing weight, gaining muscle or whatever. (Though don't use the stock settings on mfp, they're horribly low on protein even for losing weight.)

If you are trying to build muscle, having a good bit of protein in your first meal of the day makes sense.
If you had a workout the day before and haven't eaten for ten hours plus, your body is going to utilise any protein it can to repair muscle.

A 'bad diet' depends how you define it. If you are eating lots, and doing weights, you're pretty likely to build muscle.

For losing weight, if you're reasonably fit, it boils down to calories in vs calories out. Eat less than you burn and you'll lose weight.
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G
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
L4Isoside wrote:


You don't want to over eat though.

To build muscle you need to eat more calories than you burn.

Do define 'clean' diet. Also, if you've got some scientific proof to back it up, I'd love to see it Wink.

Here is something with lots of citations countering the 'clean' argument:
https://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html

There's also lots of good evidence that saturated fat increases testosterone levels and isn't the big-nasty it was once thought to be.
(Not an issue for people using steroids who will have 'through the roof' testosterone levels already, of course.)
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P.addy
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P.



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PostPosted: 13:15 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is one of the guys at my work.

https://deesfitness.co.uk/2013/06/05/90-day-body-transformation-poster/

He trains lots, he eats lots. He seriously enjoys doing so.

Might be worth having a read through his blog.
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MarkJ
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
GhostRider wrote:
its a generally accepted rule that you should be consuming 1.5g-2g of protein per lb of bodyweight. I doubt you have to even be that anal about it but its not hard to acheive, 1 protein shake per day, few eggs, steak for dinner etc.

Genuine question: is it possible to ever get enough protein without using supplements?

I'm 11st, so 154lbs. That means I have to eat between 230-300g of protein a day? That sounds like a mental amount to me, considering a can of tuna is only 30g, and considered a high protein food.

Can some of you share what you have for your daily meals? I have breakfast cereal, soup with bread at work (lunch), normally pasta or rice with chicken or beef for dinner, and fruit and some snacks (crisps) at random points in the day. I'll then eat tuna out of the can when I get back form the gym. I can't see that being anywhere near enough protein a day but it's a reasonable amount of calories.
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P.addy
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P.



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PostPosted: 13:57 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, probably not best coming from me, but the guy at work has 3-4 cooked chicken legs, about 2/3 bowl of scrambled eggs and 3 or 4 tablespoons of mince beef as a morning breakfast type meal. Thats about 8.30.

At 11am he has the same.

At about 1pm he has that but substitute the chicken for fish.

He'll then go to the gym after work for 1-2 hours and work on a specific area, legs, arms, back etc. Then his final meal of the day is basically a protein shake.

Beefcake but he has muscles the size of Wales... Laughing
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarkJ wrote:

Genuine question: is it possible to ever get enough protein without using supplements?

A protein shake is about 20g of protein per 100 calories.
Cheapish chicken or ham slices tend to be about 20g of protein per 100 calories (choose carefully to make sure they don't have too much carbs/fat if you're keeping the calories down).

So even if watching weight to keep calories low, it should be just as easy to get lots of protein not using protein shakes.

I use protein shakes because they're cheaper mostly.
Possibly a little less hassle.

[edit to add that yes, that does sound high for body weight rather than lean body weight - usually hear about 1-1.5g for bodyweight - the suggestion being that you probably don't need more than 1g, but it's not going to hurt to go to 1.5.]

I use protein shakes because they're cheap.
If you're looking to bulk, a classic technique is 'GOMAD' or 'gallon of milk a day'. Done with full fat milk, though it'd be an American gallon. Get lots of protein, carbs and fat from that.

Last edited by G on 14:23 - 21 Aug 2013; edited 1 time in total
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Omega
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarkJ wrote:
GhostRider wrote:
its a generally accepted rule that you should be consuming 1.5g-2g of protein per lb of bodyweight.

I'm 11st, so 154lbs. That means I have to eat between 230-300g of protein a day? That sounds like a mental amount to me, considering a can of tuna is only 30g, and considered a high protein food.


It'll be lean body weight not total body weight.
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GhostRider
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Omega wrote:
[
It'll be lean body weight not total body weight.


Yeah that sounds more sensible.

Quote:
That's complete bullshit, if you're a natural athlete that amount of protein is of a complete waste. You need around 0.8-1g of protein per lb of bodyweight, tops. If you're on a gear you can utilize that 1.5g+ otherwise it's of complete waste, should be filling those calories with carbs.


If you aren't a full time bodybuilder then most of the info you get is irrelevant to the common 3-4 times a week for an hour in the gym kind of person. Nonetheless getting a high protein intake is rarely going to hurt, whereas a protein deficient diet certainly will. So you could take it as erring on the side of caution.

But its at this point where these types of thread are taking their usual direction of "i'm right, you're wrong and its all black and white and set in concrete", which I tired of some 5 years ago so I'll leave you to Bro it out.

GhostRider
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I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.
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bEN_
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PostPosted: 20:20 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Whatever you do, don't venture onto /fit/ Laughing

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Irezumi aka Reuben
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
GhostRider wrote:
Nonetheless getting a high protein intake is rarely going to hurt, whereas a protein deficient diet certainly will. So you could take it as erring on the side of caution.

Liver?

GhostRider wrote:
But its at this point where these types of thread are taking their usual direction of "i'm right, you're wrong and its all black and white and set in concrete", which I tired of some 5 years ago so I'll leave you to Bro it out.

GhostRider

Contrary to my pointless previous remark completely agree with this! Laughing
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Oz.
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 21 Aug 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
In regards to must have breakfast, must eat small meals etc read:

https://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

https://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
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