question? lighter wheels?

[pepperami]

So, oh wise old BCF, enlighten me.
Yes I know google is my friend and there`s a lot on the net , but I thought I`d just ask.

If the wheels on your bike are Standard? and take a regular/standard size tyre, how easy/hard would it be to get an aftermarket set of lighter wheels?
what are the hurdles that need to be overcome (apart from cost).

This is all hypothetical , but how much of a benefit would this be?
I`m guessing here but I would think it is down to spindle size/wheel-bearing size and hub width are the most problematical.


I seek your input
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I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!

[G]

About as long as a piece of string.

Depends on the bike and many other factors.

Benefits will be less unsprung weight which can mean wheels track the road better with less passed through to the bike.
Quicker turning, too.
But mostly - big bragging point down the pub.

[pepperami]

[G]

[pepperami]

[Kickstart]

Hi

How much lighter do you want the wheels to be?

You may need to sort out spacers, sprockets, disk mounts / disks and speedo drive, although depending on the suppliers of the wheels these might be included.

Remember the cost of possibly a fair amount of suspension set up to get it to work with the lighter wheels.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[G]

Why would you want to do it, then, if you're happy with what you've got?

It's likely there are much 'better' methods to achieve the goals mentioned.

There may well be models directly available for the ZX6R.

[Dean-J]

OZ, Marchesini, Dymag, etc all make Magnesium or carbon fibre wheels off the shelf for most bikes and you can buy wheels for a similar bike, ie a gsxr 600/750 and most companies will supply you with new spacers, sprockets and discs to suit your bike.

they are FUCKING EXPENSIVE, and they have a shelf life. not worth bothering with for road use imo.

I do intend to fit a set of carbon Dymags to my GSXR trackbike at somepoint down the line, but A) there are plenty more important things to play with before i get to buying them, and B) im nowhere near good enough to warrant getting them, so its more tart factor than anything else!

do i/you/95% of riders really need them? probably not!
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Current: 99 Yamaha Thuundercat
Previous: K7 GSXR 1000 K4 GSXR 600 roadbike, CBR 600 Steelie Track bike, 2005 SV1000Sz, 2004 FZ6 Streetfighter,2003 Yamaha Thundercat, 2002 SV650, 1989 Yamaha DT125R

[Kickstart]

Hi

If you want to go for carbon fibre wheels then see if you can find the thread on the wheels N3O had on his bike

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[totalllama82]

Probably be better giving your callipers a good clean. Less drag n all that. You'll likely get the same speed increase.
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Gone: Haotian HT125-8 / Yamaha YZF 600R Thundercat / Kawasaki ZX9R C2
Current: Kawasaki ZZR 1400 A7F

[Frost]

To be honest lighter wheels makes sense as a bike upgrade. There is some saying I've half forgotten about every kilogram of unsprung weight shaved off improves handling as much as X kilograms of sprung weight.
So lighter wheels / brakes / suspension are going to have way more of an effect than other mods people spend a fortune on for the sake of weight loss, like carbon fairings.

[Teflon-Mike]

Thirty years ago; after-market wheels on a road-bike could make a good mod. Low tech and oft under-damped suspension of the day, was much relieved by lighter wheels than steel rim wire spokes, or the heavy early composite, com-stars or cast 'mags', which were hugely over engineered against fears of stress fracture.

And on slab-side GSXR's... which gained a reputation in racing for warping, due to Suzuki over-lightening them at the factory!

Spun alloy Astralites were the clubman's favourite; lighter and stronger than com-stars, they were an ecconomical way to go.

Die-Cast Magnesium, and imagintitvely named 'Dymags' were the dogs danglies; made from aircraft crade magnesium, and presission cast in a three spoke 'girder' they were, for a long while about the lightest thing you could get for a bike; On the lightweight TZ's and such, they were brilliant; but I seem to recall there were concerns over 'life' on the heavier four-strokes...

I'm trying to recall the name... I think... err... wazzizname..... chap with the CB750 'back in the day' had a pair on that.... were the better road wheel; made from a softer, higher aluminium content Magnesium alloy... might come back to me.... all pretty irrelevent any-how!

Hollow-spokes! I think it was Marchesanisi, taking a step backwards in casting techniques in the early-mid 80's, looked at the problem of the GSXR's wobbly wheels, and I have a FEELING it was for or at least Bimota jumped on them, for the GSXR powered Bims.

Anyway; technology was old fashioned 'lost-wax' or core casting; and making very large hollow 'spokes' with a thin-wall, meant they could put the strength in the wheel without the weight, and without having to use such exotic materials or casting techniques.

Suzuki jumped on them, and started making thier own version for second generation GSXR's; and Yamaha dis thier version, I think christened the 'Aero'. Honda, grudgingly abandoned the com-star; and adopted thier curved curger, six-spokes... sort of the same idea, cut a three hollow spoke in half, rotate halves through 30 degrees, weld them back together... it's NOT a copy, is it?

Anyway; defacto-standard wheel design for sporting road-bikes for the last twenty years or so.....

First rule of successful mods... before asking WHY NOT... ask WHY SO? Kawuzondaha, haven't spent gazzillions of yen and development man hours on thier designs for nothing....

And the hollow-spoke wheel, have proved to be more than light enough, more than strong enough and represent a new optimum for all-round usefulness and cost, akin to that of the old wire-spokes of old.

Shift to 'racing wheel', is likely to bring small real-world advantage from unsprung mass savings; which wont be as dramatic these days in the face of more sophisticated damping arrangements; and more likely to demand consequential mods to suspension to get the damping to work well with the lighter wheels; so actual potential there to get a system mis-match that makes mod less helpful; and my first port of call, would probably be to look at suspension upgrade or tweeks, ahead of wheel mods, as likely to find more significant improvements there; while tyres always the most influential part of the system dynamics.

Other place to look? Brakes. Wheels are aluminium and not that heavy; brake rotors however are steel, and often quite large, and you have a couple of pretty chunky calipers gripping them as well.

This is all similarly 'unsprung' mass, and a lot of it rotating unsprung mass. You are likely to find as much weight saving, fitting after-market brake rotors, rotor carrier and calipers, as you could from swapping wheels... which could be worth a bit of a think...

Brings us back round in a loop though... motorcycle is a complete system; change one part, has knock-ons to another, and to get the best from changing one bit, you have to 'match' it by changing another, and to match that, yet another, and so on..... where do you stop?

In competition? When you're winning..... or when the regs tell you to! (If you cant get away with it!)

On the road? Well? When the money runs out really! Or don't start at all! Get a different bike! Its often cheaper and easier, and almost always there's something 'better' than you got available off the shelf, some-where!

But you knew that already... which makes me think that its only half, 1) and you care more than a little for 2) or if not actual bragging rights, that little devil that says... "I feel the need to tinker! And make it 'unique'"...

On which pearl of wisdom... the man returns to playing with a pair of 7" Lucas Pattern, retro-focus projector headlamps for a Mini... the accompanying HID kit, and the two cheap after-market 7" 'Super-Dream' headlamp shells they don't 'quite' fit in.... the fork-bracket stays to support them that don't 'quite' support them well enough and are a bit distorted to go round 14" of lamp-shells.... and the replacement hi-lo switch for the one melted from the amps carried by a pair of 65W H4's... and ponder whether the CB750, REALLY needs twin headlamps at all!

Now... where can I get a pair of plastic, lucas 7" headlamp bowls and chrome ring surrounds.... a large sheet of 1/4" ali plate... and DO I try and find dome dolly's and panel hammers and get 'intricate'... or do something more 'functional' with minimum bends and folds?

I REALLY dont need twin headlamps.... and it would be SO much less hassle to just chuck one of them back into the brackets with a regular 55w H4 in it to save the switch, to get an MOT......

Ooooh! That's where my 30A Micro-Relays went to! I wonder.... IF I got a cut-grid copper project board from Maplins....

Reminds me.... Having fitted lower LC bars to suit my fabbed up stunt-peg rear-sets.... do I shorten the loom on the switch? Or shall I see if I can hide it in the... Ah! Yes, depends whether I use, the 7" shells... one... or two, or make up an ali-box, really... doesn't it?

Why is Iron Maiden ringing in my ears? Oh! That's Right... cos I can play with Madness, too! Now THAT would make for an interesting gig, wouldn't it? Adrian & Dick with Sugs & Co?! I wonder whether they'd play Run to Our House... in the middle of the hills'?!!?

See? THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Tungtvann]

Just what I was thinking, mike.

[barrkel]

Gyroscopic stability is proportional to angular momentum.

Angular momentum is proportional to moment of inertia and rotational speed.

Moment of inertial is proportional to mass, but also affected by shape and orientation; these two are mostly fixed for wheels though by the functional requirements.

So apart from all the lightening of unsprung mass, there is potential for making steering faster, especially at higher speeds where gyroscopic stability resists roll and steering resists turning. This is where the big win is IMO. Less unsprung mass will help the suspension keep you in better contact with the ground, but the win should be in better handling at high speed.
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Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ

[pepperami]

[pepperami]

[pepperami]

[rac3r]

UK roads will ruin them.
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Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636

[dansp1]

I have carbon wheels on my sp1, have had for ten years i reckon.
Now my bike is extensively modified, i have the weight down to 175kg with fuel, so i have worked hard and spent a small fortune getting it there.
Light wheels are a really good mod; at slightly over 50 years old my fitness is not what it was and a day in the alps on a sportsbike is frankly hard work, light wheels make a day seem like half a day!
Remember when you held a bicycle wheel by the spindle and spun the wheel? it fought you trying to turn didn't it?
The effect on the suspension is good too, tracks over rough surfaces easier, less weight being deflected and controlled gives the suspension an easier time.

[pepperami]

[G]

The Hyosung is overall pretty heavy - listed as 1kg lighter than an SV650 for instance - we're back to 'polishing turd' stuff.
There's plenty of bikes you could buy with similar power to it and less weight.
Hell, my stock 675 bar track fairings and a different end can came in at 175kg with some fuel.

If you want to spend a load of money for the sake of spending a load of money then some light weight wheels might be an ok choice.
Certainly better than a lot of the tat out there. But still a bit silly.
I'd spend it on petrol, trackdays and other things that would not only make your bike faster, but every other bike you ride faster first .

[dansp1]

[pepperami]

I could? sell the Hyosung and the ZX6r and use what I have in the bank and buy a tidy late GSX1100 , problem solved

I don't want to spend silly money , I just want to see if lighter wheels is a viable option ie ease of changing over, cost , improvement of the bike and so on.
No one has come on here and said it was a cheap option , so I guess that`s one of the drawbacks that may? kill the idea before it even gets off the ground.
Until you ask , you never know what`s out there.

Hmmm! nice shiny turd hmmmm!
____________________
I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!

[pepperami]

[G]