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swing arm silicone?

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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 10:02 - 12 Dec 2013    Post subject: swing arm silicone? Reply with quote
Afternoon all.
I have an NSR swing arm, sand blasted, iron oxide primer and sprayed silver. Looks great but am questioning how long it will last before stone chips etc and rust set in as I will be using it over the mucky winter and I quiet like the bike.

Soooo, I have a buddy who'll be setting up to do powder coating in a few months and was thinking in the mean time (think I'll get it powder coated in the end) I was thinking of trying out an idea to see how it holds up (especially over winter and such!).

Sooo, in order to help preserve the paint job and the bike itself from moisture (where it may rust) I plan to give it a water proof coating which will also hopefully resist stoke chips etc.

The proposed material -> Clear Silicone .
Silicone caulk + thinning agent (most likely mineral spirits) painted on in a couple of thin layers and see how it holds up.

I suspect it will give a more matt finish and I suspect may discolour rather quickly where lots of dirt collects however if it holds up well, doesn't look to bad where it counts and holds moisture/dirt at bay then maybe just maybe I'll have a corrosion resistant NSR (for a while at least)!

I plan to have a play.
Am aiming to try come up with a formula that leaves the silicone clear with a decent finish.
If it works, will post results.
Could be very useful for winter hacks however I expect the parts will have to be pretty clean for the silicone to bond.
May re-sand blast the swing arm to give a rough surface to bond to.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Best regards

-Jvr
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YBR Ric
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PostPosted: 10:06 - 12 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Plasticote was made for applications such as this.
Spray on now, peel off later!
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 12 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You know when you spread it too thin, then it peels as soon as you touch it.....

Your swingarm will look like its recovering from sunburn in no time.
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 12 Dec 2013    Post subject: Re: swing arm silicone? Reply with quote
skatefreak wrote:

May re-sand blast the swing arm to give a rough surface to bond to.


May resolve that...

Plasticoat? don't you mean plasti-dip?
and at £14+ per 311ml can... could get expensive...

Cheers for the thoughts though...
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 12 Dec 2013    Post subject: Re: swing arm silicone? Reply with quote
Clear Waxoyl would be a better bet.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:39 - 12 Dec 2013    Post subject: Re: swing arm silicone? Reply with quote
skatefreak wrote:
skatefreak wrote:

May re-sand blast the swing arm to give a rough surface to bond to.


May resolve that...

Plasticoat? don't you mean plasti-dip?
and at £14+ per 311ml can... could get expensive...

Cheers for the thoughts though...


You can get plastic 'stone-chip' spray out of Halfrauds. It is the stuff for painting under wheel arches etc. I think Hammerite do it.

Silicone will peel off unless you get a very very spickulus surface to adhere to. Then when its on properly it won't come facking off. Smile
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 12 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, it shall be incredulously clean and assuming it sticks spectacularly it will be getting sand blasted in a few months/when it goes manky (which ever comes first)...

Cheers for the input though.

Not so much out to re-invent the wheel but I cannot find any info of anyone trying it so figured I don't have much to lose in this case so why not.

Cheers anywho.

-Jvr
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uberkron
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PostPosted: 04:12 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You will have a hard time finding a suitable solvent for rtv that will only thin it.

Dip your ride!
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uberkron
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PostPosted: 04:12 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
You will have a hard time finding a suitable solvent for rtv that will only thin it.

Dip your ride!
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 09:14 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vincent wrote:
The inside of steel, hollow swingarms always get left out of rust proofing and this is where they can rot, especially if they can trap moisture inside.


Muchos gracious.
Would have completely overlooked this!
Will see about sealing it (easier heh).

-Jvr
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
skatefreak wrote:
Vincent wrote:
The inside of steel, hollow swingarms always get left out of rust proofing and this is where they can rot, especially if they can trap moisture inside.


Muchos gracious.
Would have completely overlooked this!
Will see about sealing it (easier heh).

-Jvr


Good luck with dat.

If it's hollow it will be full of gas (atmosfrik air) As it heats up/cools down the gas will expand/contract so if you seal it you will end up with a 'pressure vessel'. As long as your seal remains intact all should be good but it depends on how you 'seal' it. Welding it would be a practical method. But the item would have to be pressure tested too.

A more simpler-ified method would be to use Wax-Oil and scoot it all around the inside. To do this may require that a few wee holes are drilled in the item. And for extra effectiveness the SA would need to be removed. As Cheryl Cole (née Tweedy) would say, "Is it wooth it?"
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
_Iain_ wrote:
What's wrong with just cleaning it and applying a bit of ACF 50?

No sense worrying about chipping the finish if you're going to powdercoat it later, and it's also not worth having a bike so pretty you're afraid of getting it mucky! Laughing

ACF50 it and a bucket of soapy water every few weeks. Thumbs Up


ACF50 will be blasted off by water spray action as the OP/Hooligan Hoons the arse off it all aroond the place. Rolling Eyes

Very Happy
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
Good luck with dat.

If it's hollow it will be full of gas (atmosfrik air) As it heats up/cools down the gas will expand/contract so if you seal it you will end up with a 'pressure vessel'. As long as your seal remains intact all should be good but it depends on how you 'seal' it. Welding it would be a practical method. But the item would have to be pressure tested too.

A more simpler-ified method would be to use Wax-Oil and scoot it all around the inside. To do this may require that a few wee holes are drilled in the item. And for extra effectiveness the SA would need to be removed. As Cheryl Cole (née Tweedy) would say, "Is it wooth it?"



WTF are you on about?

Pressure testing a swingarm, are you taking the piss?

A change in air temperature of 30 K would equal about 1.3 psi increase. Absolutely irrelevant to a steel swingarm, even if you managed to seal it.

Rolling Eyes
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
DrDonnyBrago wrote:
Walloper wrote:
Good luck with dat.

If it's hollow it will be full of gas (atmosfrik air) As it heats up/cools down the gas will expand/contract so if you seal it you will end up with a 'pressure vessel'. As long as your seal remains intact all should be good but it depends on how you 'seal' it. Welding it would be a practical method. But the item would have to be pressure tested too.

A more simpler-ified method would be to use Wax-Oil and scoot it all around the inside. To do this may require that a few wee holes are drilled in the item. And for extra effectiveness the SA would need to be removed. As Cheryl Cole (née Tweedy) would say, "Is it wooth it?"



WTF are you on about?

Pressure testing a swingarm, are you taking the piss?

A change in air temperature of 30 K would equal about 1.3 psi increase. Absolutely irrelevant to a steel swingarm, even if you managed to seal it.

Rolling Eyes


WTF do you know?

If it is only partially sealed it will still let moisture in. And will corrode if conditions permit.

Sealing atmospheric air in will trap moisture.

Ya phannie.

I don't mean it will explode you bombastic cunt.
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skatefreak
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is proving quiet amusing tbh but I will have to mention that the swing arm has been far from sealed for the past 13 years and doesn't appear to have corroded much from inside. At its current rate of internal corrosion I reckon the swing arm will outlive most of the rest of the bike so hows about we leave this aspect for now.

Am mostly interested in it because I like to tinker and god forbid it might work?! Chances aren't terribly high but heck, I have not come across anyone who has tried.
Either means no ones tried and it may be worth it or I am actually, as often accused, rather derp...

Cheers for the input though chaps.

-Jvr

Ps, Of course ACF50 wouldn't last 2 minutes... the way I 'Hoon' that bike. Heck its a 2 stroke don't ya know... Rolling Eyes
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
skatefreak wrote:
This is proving quiet amusing tbh but I will have to mention that the swing arm has been far from sealed for the past 13 years and doesn't appear to have corroded much from inside. At its current rate of internal corrosion I reckon the swing arm will outlive most of the rest of the bike so hows about we leave this aspect for now.

Am mostly interested in it because I like to tinker and god forbid it might work?! Chances aren't terribly high but heck, I have not come across anyone who has tried.
Either means no ones tried and it may be worth it or I am actually, as often accused, rather derp...

Cheers for the input though chaps.

-Jvr

Ps, Of course ACF50 wouldn't last 2 minutes... the way I 'Hoon' that bike. Heck its a 2 stroke don't ya know... Rolling Eyes


Just use a reliable product. 3M stuff does what it says on the tin/bag/box but possibly expensive and not easy to find a supplier.

https://catalogue.3m.eu/en_GB/GB-Marine/Coatings/Anti-Chip/Body_Gard~Textured_Coating~nocode

This comes in several colours. They do respond to emails and can maybe advise on your project.
If you do resort to silicone-ing then it could probably look like shite after the crap from the road is embedded in the surface which it will as it is soft.
I have used stone chip then painted over when I refurbed a swingarm. It came off after a month or two. And de-greased like buggery before spraying. Maybe the product was cheap shite.

I wouldn't bother my beaver treating the inside myself. BTW.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
If it's hollow it will be full of gas (atmosfrik air) As it heats up/cools down the gas will expand/contract so if you seal it you will end up with a 'pressure vessel'. As long as your seal remains intact all should be good but it depends on how you 'seal' it. Welding it would be a practical method. But the item would have to be pressure tested too.


Walloper wrote:
If it is only partially sealed it will still let moisture in. And will corrode if conditions permit.

Sealing atmospheric air in will trap moisture.



Your two posts are completely different.

I am not fluent in full retard so how do you suggest your first episode of mong speak about heating/cooling, pressure vessels and pressure testing should be interpreted as concern about moisture?


If you want to say something, you'll need to both learn and use the appropriate words required to articulate your point.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
DrDonnyBrago wrote:
Walloper wrote:
If it's hollow it will be full of gas (atmosfrik air) As it heats up/cools down the gas will expand/contract so if you seal it you will end up with a 'pressure vessel'. As long as your seal remains intact all should be good but it depends on how you 'seal' it. Welding it would be a practical method. But the item would have to be pressure tested too.


Walloper wrote:
If it is only partially sealed it will still let moisture in. And will corrode if conditions permit.

Sealing atmospheric air in will trap moisture.



Your two posts are completely different.

I am not fluent in full retard so how do you suggest your first episode of mong speak about heating/cooling, pressure vessels and pressure testing should be interpreted as concern about moisture?


If you want to say something, you'll need to both learn and use the appropriate words required to articulate your point.


Not reeeealy. It's often always the case where people jump in with 2p worth so means it all has to be spelled out for the 'tard' in them.

You profess you are not fluent in retard but you do not too bad mate as an amateur. Thumbs Up

A sealed vessel will have a 'permanent' amount of 'whatever' inside it when sealed. No problem.

A partially sealed vessel will/can contain a variable amount of whatever gets in at time of partial sealing or later in service.

On a swing arm especially it presented with water spray. Heat from the exhaust, engine etc. More directly if standing idling. Then cooling when ridden through cool air or puddle etc.
The expansion/contraction so generated will only encourage the ingress of moisture if the vessel is not hermetically sealed.

To ensure the item is sealed it would have to be pressure tested. By whatever method is practical. ie by gas charge and check for leak-off or submerged in a liquid medium (water) and look for bubbles. (Unless you have a better way to test a sealed vessel.)

All of the above probably dictates that 'sealing' (the OP's suggestion but which the OP is not going to bother doing as we read later) would not be a simple matter. I only explained the detail.
If you have any question you could reply with why pressure test not 'WTF are you on about'.

It wasn't my idea to do Hee-Haw with the inside of the blistering fackin' swing arm so why are you getting all uppity/hot and bothered? Shocked
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a simple point, that you failed to make clearly until your second attempt.

That's pretty much it.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
DrDonnyBrago wrote:
It's a simple point, that you failed to make clearly until your second attempt.

That's pretty much it.


So are you happy now?

Rolling Eyes
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 13 Dec 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote
Vincent wrote:
Walloper wrote:


Good luck with dat.

If it's hollow it will be full of gas (atmosfrik air) As it heats up/cools down the gas will expand/contract so if you seal it you will end up with a 'pressure vessel'. As long as your seal remains intact all should be good but it depends on how you 'seal' it. Welding it would be a practical method. But the item would have to be pressure tested too.

A more simpler-ified method would be to use Wax-Oil and scoot it all around the inside. To do this may require that a few wee holes are drilled in the item. And for extra effectiveness the SA would need to be removed. As Cheryl Cole (née Tweedy) would say, "Is it wooth it?"


Laughing If it was sealed, it wouldn't get much water in there anyway.


Of course, which would be the whole (no pun) reason for sealing. The point I have attempted to explain the the class is:
There would be no gain to if not 100% sealed as water would probably still get in to do it's work.
Normally, compartments have drain holes to permit drainage.
Corrosion inside is probably not significant either for cosmetic or structural reasons.
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