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recman
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Parking fine Reply with quote

So the Mrs went shopping at our local Asda one morning a couple of weeks back and the car park entrance camera took a pic of her on the way in.
I used the car for work later in the day due to some shitty weather and popped into the same Asda on the way home.
The exit camera clocked me on the way out but the parking fine company have taken this to be one long visit which contravenes their 2hr stay limit and sent me a £40 pay now/£70 pay later fine notice.
I've already lodged an on-line appeal explaining what's happened but is there anything else I can do should the appeal fail?
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The Disapproving Brit
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: Parking fine Reply with quote

Get onto Pepipoo and start a thread there. They'll see you right.
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

can you prove the car was elsewhere in-between such as CCTV footage of it being at the work car park?
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mogstar
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get the boss etc. in work to verify you came in the car and tell the parking company you have independant witnesses to back up your movements that day and to Middle Finger
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Ste
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PostPosted: 13:52 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignore it.
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Furrybiker
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PostPosted: 14:26 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will get about six months of letters with threats, the last one will threaten court action.

Then nothing.

Well so far anyway!
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 15:20 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Ignore it.


This, would just chuck in the bin. Only idiots pay them.
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mysterious_rider
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think you only pay to the council. Bin the others.
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Finglonga
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

The law has changed now, ignore at your own risk. Parking Eye scum have already taken people to court.

BTW it is not a parking ticket it is an invoice.
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Irn-Bru
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

You sure it's not in violation of the no return policy most places have? This stops people parking for 1h 59m, leaving then returning to reset the counter.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

mysterious_rider wrote:
i think you only pay to the council. Bin the others.


Bin the council's too, but re-register the car first. Then have fun winding up the douchebag bailiff, they soon give it up. Laughing
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 16:49 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Re: Parking fine Reply with quote

recman wrote:
So the Mrs went shopping at our local Asda one morning a couple of weeks back and the car park entrance camera ............................The exit camera clocked me on the way out but..............................


Why didn't the exit camera clock your Mrs on her way out?
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Minty
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was it a free car park? I had one for a free car park (Sainsburys) as wife overstayed 2 hour limit.

They wanted £25. I asked them to detail the losses Sainsburys had on the free car parking space and also advised that I will take the matter to Popla unless they dropped the matter (costs them £27 + vat for all Popla referrals I think).

Never heard anything back. Was about 4 months ago.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignore it/email them, asking them to detail their actual loses if you fancy winding them up.
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recman
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a free car park. I'm not entirely sure why the exit camera didn't see the mrs on the way out, maybe it did and they've chosen to ignore it which would make the whole thing a scam.
Can't really ignore it as I've already logged an appeal although I wish I hadn't now as I went into Asda to report the matter.
It seems they have a pile of these letters which they deal with and get cancelled but I was told that as I've appealed they can't do anything for me.
I may be able to get evidence from the CCTV cameras at work so we'll see.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

recman wrote:
It is a free car park. I'm not entirely sure why the exit camera didn't see the mrs on the way out, maybe it did and they've chosen to ignore it which would make the whole thing a scam.
Can't really ignore it as I've already logged an appeal although I wish I hadn't now as I went into Asda to report the matter.
It seems they have a pile of these letters which they deal with and get cancelled but I was told that as I've appealed they can't do anything for me.
I may be able to get evidence from the CCTV cameras at work so we'll see.


Wait and see what comes of your appeal. Can't do any harm. If you lose the appeal then just ignore all future communication.
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recman
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PostPosted: 17:41 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I lose the appeal I'm going on a death dealing road trip to their HQ in, er, Perth.
Who's with me? Twisted Evil
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Friend drove into services with monitored cameras, got lunch and drove out.

It snowed the next day and was dark as hell, first photo was at about 1pm, next was at about 7pm.

1st was sunny and nice Laughing Like fuck did he stay there 6 hours Laughing
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 26 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

as has been said,

wait for outcome of appeal,

if needs be, as for details of losses on free carpark etc.
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Nick__C
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 27 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignore it.
The parking company given permission to manage the ASDA car park does not have the legal power to fine you, or sue you in court for damages.

Quote:

The Judge then announced that, in his opinion, a contractual arrangement to manage parking does not give rise to a cause of action to claim for damages, and the lack of ownership of the land meant that the claimant had no standing to bring such an action in their own name.


Which is from a recent case brought by renowned parking villains ParkingEye.

Further reading found here: https://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/parkingeye-spanked-in-court.html

I would suggest the only reply you should provide is to inform the parking company of this and that if they require any further correspondence refer them to Arkell v. Pressdram (1971) Thumbs Up
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:55 - 27 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you've been reading Parking Prankster, you'll know that some parking fraudsters are now quite happy to take cases to County Court while adding on their costs, at which point it's a lottery. They know that the majority of victims will cave when they receive an actual summons, or won't show up and will lose by default.

DO NOT ignore it, that's pre-PoFA advice. The "Protection of Freedoms Act" is, in best Septic doublethink fashion, a racketeers' charter.

You were correct to appeal, but it should have been on procedural grounds, rather than factual (which they'll simply ignore, all you've done is confirm the driver): contractual charge or penalty for breach of contract?; no genuine pre-estimate of loss; show me the contract.

PePiPoo will indeed advise. Tell them all the details, and show them pictures of the documents. But don't expect the parking ghouls to do anything other than ignore or deny your appeal and refuse to hand out a POPLA code.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 27 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last one I had I asked them for proof of their allegations, and never heard anything again. Laughing
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ninja_butler
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PostPosted: 11:03 - 27 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finglonga wrote:
The law has changed now, ignore at your own risk. Parking Eye scum have already taken people to court.

BTW it is not a parking ticket it is an invoice.


This I'm afraid is true, and yes it is an "invoice" not a fine.


They died out for several years but like weeds the parking-fine companies have sprouted back to life again and this time many of them have a measure of official endorsement to give them more weight in the courts.
During the time that they seemed to have faded away they were busy ingratiating themselves with bigwigs and ministers in the DoT and now they are back with a vengeance.
List of "approved" operators (ie, nasty bastards who know who to bribe) https://www.britishparking.co.uk/Approved-Operators

You CAN beat them but you have to arm yourself with knowledge first. How to fight parking fines & charges (scroll down to "the militant approach) https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets
And this is the face of one of those "special friends" of the car parking companies: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2369824/We-need-DOUBLE-parking-fines-Minister-says-penalties-low-longer-deterrent.html

A quick note about "small claims" court; in most cases the defendant does NOT have to pay the costs of the other party and in those few cases where they do have to pay (typically to cover costs such lost earnings and inconvenience)
there is a ceiling of somewhere around £350 - don't quote me on that but I'm pretty sure it's around that mark.
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ninja_butler
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 27 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick__C wrote:
Ignore it.
The parking company given permission to manage the ASDA car park does not have the legal power to fine you, or sue you in court for damages.

Quote:

The Judge then announced that, in his opinion, a contractual arrangement to manage parking does not give rise to a cause of action to claim for damages, and the lack of ownership of the land meant that the claimant had no standing to bring such an action in their own name.


Which is from a recent case brought by renowned parking villains ParkingEye.

Further reading found here: https://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/parkingeye-spanked-in-court.html

I would suggest the only reply you should provide is to inform the parking company of this and that if they require any further correspondence refer them to Arkell v. Pressdram (1971) Thumbs Up


Bookmarked. Thumbs Up
There's some great stuff in his blog.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 27 Oct 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninja_butler wrote:
A quick note about "small claims" court; in most cases the defendant does NOT have to pay the costs of the other party

The parking fraudsters have habitually been adding on (and presumably winning) the filing fee and a £50 solicitor's fee.

Pay it now or be prepared to see it through.
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