Help Planning Euro Trip

[chickenstrip]

So next year, a Euro tour has finally got to the top of my biking "must-do" list, saving hard for it now. But although I have ridden in Europe before, it was a long time ago and I didn't exactly make the most of my time there, so I'm looking for any tips/help/advice I can get.

Firstly, an idea of what I think I would LIKE to do. Time available 14 days. Budget: hoping to have min £1500 to cover everything.

Part 1. Battle of the Bulge.
I've always been fascinated by the idea of visiting the WW2 Battle of the Bulge region (Ardennes). I'm told there are a number of good museums in the area that cover this campaign, the scenery sounds appealing, and would like to see for myself the towns, terrain etc where it all took place.
In my mind, Bastogne, St. Vith, Malmedy (I seem to remember from reading that the Germans attacked on a front Monschau to Echternach). Looking at Google maps, the area just north and west of Bitburg seems good for some scenic riding/appreciation too.

So I thought a Dover/Calais ferry, ride to that region, campsite, and maybe 3 days to explore/see what I can.

Part 2: The Alps.
Very vague at the moment on exactly where I want to see. Mountain scenery being a major motivation as I've always loved and been fascinated by mountain regions. Enjoyable riding of course, though I hasten to add that I'll probably stop a lot for photo opportunities, coffee stops etc. So not looking to cover huge mileages each day, maybe up to 200/250 per day. Might also want a rest day once or twice.

So one day to get from Ardennes to first Alpine destination (Geneva-ish?). 7 days (max) to explore French/Swiss/Italian Alps. 2 days to head home in. I will actually have a total of 16 days off work, the idea being I have one day before leaving to get the kit sorted and packed, and a day to chill out when I get home before going back to work.

Thinking mostly camping, with option to hotel it (cheap-ish) on 2-4 nights. Don't really want to book in advance though. July?

So, as said, any tips, advice, knowledge of the regions, recommendations for campsites and hotels etc etc. And do you think the plan is over-ambitious? Can it reasonably be fitted in to 14 days to make an enjoyable holiday?

Cheers in advance

[Matt B]

Budget hotels in France are cheap, crap but cheap. So cheap that it makes camping and having to lug all the associated gear around seem pointless. Much more pleasant having a nice warm, dry room when you have gotten soaked through and cold riding in the wet. I mention it because if you do the Alps, chances are you will get wet.

Limousin region has some lovely roads for biking.
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[Enduro Numpty]

I agree with above regarding most of France, I don't carry any camping gear and haven't for years. Many parts of the Alps can be expensive though. Switzerland is particularly expensive in places for accommodation but the standards are generally quite high. It's nearly 30 years since I've camped there so don't know how that compares. There are so many great routes through the alps but my own particular favourites are the Grimsel, Susten & Furka passes in Switzerland. If you venture into Austria the Grossglockner mountain road is superb (have to pay but worth it). If you're venturing into Italy then there's always the Stelvio.

The possibilities really are endless. As for taking a day to get the bike packed, forget it - use that day as an extra day on the road. You'll get packed in no time.

Enjoy

[garth]

Route des grande alps starts from Thonon Les Bains.

Follow that.

[FrankGill]

2014, 100th anniversary of the start of the Great War, depending on when you go prices could be jacked up. But as all ready said the posibilites are endless.

[Peirre oBollox]

dump the camping gear, save riding time by not pitching/packing the tent each day. Use a variety of hotels, B&B`s or maybe YHA hostels, you`ll sleep in a clean bed, have access to showers, nearby food & drink etc.

My 22 day through the Alps (DRGA) Corsica, Italy (Tuscany) the Italian, Austrian, & Swiss Alps, Vosages, Black Forest, and the Somme Battlefield Region cost me £650 in hotels, B&B`s & YHA hostels, budgeting €30-€60 per night. The total cost of the trip inc ferries was slightly over £1600
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[chickenstrip]

[spnorm]

I stopped in Bastogne for a night in May, but it wasn't cheap. We stopped in the Hotel Giorgi which had a nice Italian restaurant attached and a garage for parking your bike.

The memorial is about 2 miles outside the town and quite impressive. They were busy building a large museum next to it, which I assume will be open in 2014 for the 70th anniversary. The road from there to Clervaux where the official Battle of the Bulge is located was pretty good fun, even in the car (family holiday).

If heading south to Switzerland,the Routes des Cretes through the Vosges is a brilliant road. I'd also recommend visiting Verdun as the memorial and WW1 graveyard is larger than the American one at Omaha Beach and very moving.

[chickenstrip]

[Peirre oBollox]

I pre -booked my accommodation mainly after researching & getting recomendations of the facilities & location. Taking into consideration the distance/time between locations and what I wanted at each place
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[Lyam]

[spnorm]

[chickenstrip]

[richiec]

Can recommend Routes des Cretes, lovely stretch of road with quite a few places to stop and get a bite to eat.

Mulhouse is not far away where they have a massive motor museum : https://citedelautomobile.com/en/home

We stopped over at Dinant on our way through Belgium, lovely place to stay and Rommel actually stayed overnight there : https://www.aubergedebouvignes.be/uk/index.htm

[Enduro Numpty]

We usually use booking.com and book 1 or 2 days in advance. You can get some great deals and get the chance to read previous reviews. Secure parking can be a big consideration and this can be looked into also. We use a small netbook but a smartphone will do just as well.

Prefer this method rather than booking the whole thing in advance as it gives more flexibility if plans change.

[chickenstrip]

[Enduro Numpty]

I'm no help on guide books or camp sites I'm afraid but over the last couple of years I've got a fair bit of experience of Sat Nav. Sure you don't need them, maps will do just fine but where I've found them to be particularly helpful is finding hotels in cities or towns and for getting you through busy cities. In 2012 we arrived in Istanbul in rush hour 5 lane mayhem and the sat nav got us to our city centre destination with no drama. I can't imagine how we would have found it without it. This was repeated in many busy cities across Europe.
Another area where sat nav can be a great help is route planning. I am still not great at it but not having to look at a map all the time and just listening to the directions can take a lot of the hassle out of navigating.

If money is tight I wouldn't bother, it's something you can get later, maps will do fine for most things. A lot of smart phones have some kind of GPS capability these days and I'm sure you could utilise that if you're visiting cities.

Cities are places where a lot of people want to avoid when travelling on a bike. I used to be the same but much as I love good roads it's nice to have some things to do at night and now I try and end up in a city at night if at all possible. Worth bearing in mind.

[spnorm]

All three times I've been into the Sud Tirol and Dolomites I've stopped in Chur. Not the prettiest place in Switzerland, but the Ibis is quite cheap, has secure parking and is a five minute walk to the old town.

The location is excellent though - straight onto the Lenzerheide pass, then Albula or Fluella pass, Ofen pass, Umbrail, Stelvio, drop down onto the SS42 south of the Stelvio NP and head east to the Dolomites. Don't take the SS38 to the north as it's very congested with few overtaking opportunities.

I'd recommend Arabba as a base in the Dolomites as it's in the centre of the classic figure of 8 pass route. Three nights is more than enough time to see the area. Then head north to the Grossglockner which is one of the best biking roads in the World

This book is the bible for touring in the Alps. The reviews have always been spot on in my experience

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Motorcycle-Journeys-Through-Alps-Beyond/dp/1884313388/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1388136568&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=Motorcycling+through+the+alps

[chickenstrip]

I've ordered the book sp, thanks once again! And will look at the Dolomite suggestion too, sounds spot on.

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Route Napoleon?
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[chickenstrip]

[Peirre oBollox]

[chickenstrip]

Now probably extending to 3 weeks to hopefully have time to try more of the route suggestions and perhaps one or two from here:

https://www.bestbikingroads.com/

Excellent site, for those who don't already know of it.
So, might be able to do Route des Grande Alps after all. Thanks again for the suggestion. Even if I don't actually make a particular route, it might come in handy to have a few alternative ideas in mind.

[J biker]

Try this site for info on Alpine roads;
https://www.alpineroads.com/
We have another trip this year starting from Rotterdam (overnight ferry from Newcastle) and ending in Calais to Dover crossing and home.
This way we can make the trip a loop rather than retracing our steps, giving more time in different places.
1 night Baden Baden in Black Forest
2 nights St Anton Austria
2nights St Moritz Switzerland
2 nights Bourg St Maurice
1 night St Quintin on return leg..

As mentioned, Switzerland is expensive though by booking well in advance we have kept prices very reasonable. Superb roads around all the bases we have picked.

Coming from France in to Switzerland via Italy, the St Bernard passes are well worth the effort.
Personal favourites are St Gotthard, Grimsel, Furka and Ofenpass in Switzerland Timmeljoch Italy/Austria, that can be done with the Jaufenpass, also good.

Route Napoleon can be busy, for me the only spectacular part is the climb up from Grasse in to the mountains. Well worth stopping and looking back for great views.

Gorge de Verdon has been mentioned, it is superb. North side is maybe better/wider road but busy. South side has some jaw dropping views straight down in to the gorge below (not good for vertigo!). IF you get down that way and you like fast tight roads then Lac de Castellon is a must. Also on the Verdon river system. We nicknamed it 'the race track' on our last visit...

Re. France, avoid Tour de France if you want accommodation.

[chickenstrip]

Really not sure of when to go as yet. July/August seems best chance of decent weather, September generally less busy with tourists (?), but have been told that bookings, especially late ones, can be a problem if aiming for Italy in September, as they tend to take their holidays at the end of the tourist season.

So, whilst I'm aware that there are advantages/disadvantages of any period, and rain is possible during any period, what's the best time of year to do this?

Haven't really thought too much about the return route, as I wanted to spend as much time as possible down in the mountain regions, so will probably just pick the fastest/most direct route home - allowing 2 days so it doesn't get too epic.

Thanks J Biker for the added info.