Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Shops, costs and pros/cons?

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Dear Auntie BCF... Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

st3v3
Super Spammer



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:47 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Shops, costs and pros/cons? Reply with quote

I'm setting up with 3 friends, we plan to courier but hold a retail front to it all to secure a decent location.

It's couriering food; we've had the right sort of feedback and 2 of the guys know the retail industry but the property is what's confusing me.

Rather than walk into an estate agents and show myself as clueless I wanted to get my head round a couple things, should there be a point where these 2 guys are unavailable or move on etc I think I should know the theory.

Had a quote on a retail place nearby; perfect for our needs.
Quote:
"Your rates payable is calculated by multiplying the rateable value of the property you are liable for by the appropriate rate in the Pound figure" - which is £0.462. if £10/12K is "rates" doesn't that mean it's 10K rateable tax on a lease?

The lease is advertised at ~£70K, the 10/12K figure is from the Estate Agent as "rateable value", but I can't do numbers. ( Laughing that's not what i'm in it for tho so.. Laughing )

Anyone kind enough to shed some light on this, dumb it down a little? Embarassed

Ta. Thumbs Up
____________________
Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

t121anf
World Chat Champion



Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:08 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

This any help?

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-business-rates
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:20 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Shops, costs and pros/cons? Reply with quote

Best bet is to call up the local business rates department and see what they say - different areas have different discounts I believe.
Though that's likely to be pushing the limits for the discounts.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

st3v3
Super Spammer



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:06 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Postcode search and finding it on the list reveals:
Quote:
RV: £34,750 | since: 01 Apr 2010


No idea where his 10/12K comes from

Thinking
____________________
Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:41 - 02 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it the whole property you would be renting?
It may be proportional if renting a part of it.
There can be various discounts too, for various things.

Or they might just be trying to blag it so you sign a contract.

On that, be careful what you sign and think carefully about who the **** will fall on if it goes down the pan.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Rockhopper
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:15 - 03 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do as much as you possibly can to avoid getting a shop or unit until you know that the business can pay for it.
If you do go ahead then be careful about the length of the lease. A company I used to work for took out a ten year lease but closed the shop after two - they had to sub let it for eight years!
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

andyscooter
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 May 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:24 - 03 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

shops are a bad idea at the momnet

bloke i know has a small bike shop

doesnt keep much stock as its too small but his wife runs that

works 6 days a week 5 at the shop one at home

spends all day saturday doing mots from 9 til 5 to cover rates wont even consider doing a service or repairs on a saturday

costs 34 grand a year in rates alone before he even thinks of anything else

luckily has a barn on his land and sells online from there he is thinking of getting rid of the shop and working from home as he has a decent workshop there anyway
____________________
gilera runner vxr200 (chavped)
if its spelt wrong its my fat fingers and daft auto correct on my tablet
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

BakesBeans
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 14 Aug 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:24 - 03 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

The business rates are based on the rateable value (which is fixed per year) and then you are charged a percentage depending on the type of use. E.g. £0.462 (46.2%).

So if it was £34,750, you would pay £16,054.50.

You can appeal the percentage, but the agent should give you an idea what it is.



However, setting up a shop? Why not set up a kitchen and just use Hungry House or Just Eat? Make sure you get all the certificates for food hygiene mind!
____________________
Current: Kawasaki ZX636
Previous Bike: Honda CBR600F ABS, Yamaha XJ6 F Diversion ABS, Honda VFR400 NC30
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

GhostRider
World Chat Champion



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:43 - 05 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuck me, and they wonder why the high streets are becoming barren!!

GhostRider
____________________
I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

st3v3
Super Spammer



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:34 - 06 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea we want to do is different to Just-Eat.

Say you get home from a 10/12 hour shift and fancy a takeaway but dont wanna go back out, wait half an hour between the chinese and supermarket getting grub and beer.. with this service you pay a few quid more for your total order amount but you get everything you want delivered to your doorstep at a time you pick.

The reason we need a shop is because we need decent storage for retail stuff (wine/beer/crisps/choccies/pops) while being able to actively sell it.

The area we chose currently has no shops open past 8pm so opening 2/3-11 means we get all the orders in and prepped for the 5-7 deliveries and people can use the shop to buy stuff while nowhere else is open.


I hadn't thought about being taken for a ride, we'd all be named tenants and are going thru companies house currently to register.
(no plans to do hot food or prep, we'll just be transporting hot foods from various local takeaways/chippys that dont deliver)
____________________
Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done


Last edited by st3v3 on 00:52 - 06 Jan 2014; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:47 - 06 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oddly enough, many years ago I'd had a similar idea - when we were, ahem, getting 'intoxicated' a lot and often ordering in despite the take-away being just down the road - to the point they knew us by voice on the phone and so on.

There was enough times some victim reluctantly went to the petrol station/corner shop to stock up on food and so on with a big list from everyone.

HOWEVER, would we have paid extra for it over a normal takeaway?

Not sure.

If it were me, I would personally consider sticking to an industrial unit or place out of the way to try out the delivery side and see if that worked.
Likely massively cheaper.

There's no reason with what you mention you can't be on Just eat.
Whether you can do the beer and so on as well I don't know.
Some of the local takeaways around here do beer and fags at least.

Don't expect people to call up in advance.

Also, if there's residents around, consider that they may not allow you to get planning permission to open late.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

st3v3
Super Spammer



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:59 - 06 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alot of people won't outright want to pay an extra fiver for a chinese to be delivered, but alot of our local chippy's dont deliver so we're getting them onboard to push our service.

Chippy usually costs ~£10 a time for a couple of people, add a 4pack and a bottle of wine/pop it's soon £15.

Pay £20 or less (location dependant) and have it delivered within 10mins of you getting home? dont think its that unreasonable tbh.

We're investing most of it ourselves.
Cargo pushbikes and a couple of cheapo fez's for cheaps transport and the rest comes easy.
Alot of shops have agreed to put flyers up saying they use us - and we haven't even got them yet Embarassed Laughing

Industrial unit is a good option, but once you go out of town the whole 'free' delivery (to us*) using pushbikes is no longer an option, and using cars or mopeds for all deliveries means too higher fuel overheads.

)*obvs not 'free', we still have a wage to pay we just profit slightly if we get 2/3/5 deliveries in the same hour)
____________________
Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:12 - 06 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, I'd initially thought you were doing hot food yourself - then it's pretty similar to my thoughts, though I was thinking to make a deal with one of the cornershops that WAS open late - there was a really good Italian that did takeaways where I lived, but it was the other end of town and didn't deliver, so it was rare we got anything from there.

Were it me then, I'd be strongly considering seeing if anyone has an existing corner-shop business for sale.
Of course, there's always a reason they're selling - but it would give you more of a change to be making money from the off.

I'd also look at electric push bikes - feel free to drop me a PM - this is something I've more recently (the other stuff was a good 15 years ago) been thinking about a bit too as far as delivery options.
However, if you're staying fully legal, to be fair, a fit rider on a normal push bike will be probably be as fast as a non-licensed electric. Something around the 1kw mark which DOES legally require a plate and so on would be an option (1kw and under is a bit easier to get a home-brew one registered), but then you need specific road insurance, number plate, (free) tax and everything (I'd be going for public liability anyway for all sorts of things.)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

TQ
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:27 - 06 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't you going to struggle to get a license to sell booze?
____________________
First Bike :Gilera DNA 50 | Second: Imported 1989 NSR125
Third: 1998 Yamaha XJ600N | Currently: 1999 Yamaha FZS600
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

st3v3
Super Spammer



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:30 - 06 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the other 3 guys has held a licence before, says getting one for sale of stuff for consumption off the premises isn't hard - not my area tho so left him to it.
____________________
Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:37 - 06 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems your business is based around delivering takeaways and groceries to people's homes. A niche currently filled by takeaways that offer delivery, and supermarkets that offer delivery.

I don't see the need to have a shop. If you need some storage space, why not use your living room when you start out?

I can see your idea failing pretty quickly. If your business is based around delivering for takeaways, and it means they get more business, they would get rid of you and use their own (cheaper) delivery drivers, or knock you down to 50p/delivery.

How are you going to handle the money? Do people call up the shop and pay on the phone, or do you pay for the goods then get paid by the customer? Rather tricky if it's a joke order and you turn up at someone's house with £40 in hot food and they aren't paying for it.

I can only see it working if you're serving an area with a high demand for takeaway food, and no-one delivering to that area.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

st3v3
Super Spammer



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:22 - 11 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're serving a city thriving on fast food and convenience lifestyle.

I get your point, but for half of it the market says the niche isn't filled and there is room.

We can't start out as 'from a living room' because the hours we will work will be unsociable and you need planning permission to work from home for business use, 4 of us doing that from 1 of our houses is incredibly inefficent.

There's tens and tens of takeaways and chippy's in the city that don't have delivery, they rely on people to visit them which often means people settle for what's in the fridge or cupboard.

For a fiver extra once or twice a week a household might well have that option, and we have a few households in a few hours from different areas of the city every night it might work.
(supermarkets wont deliver 2 bottles of wine to your door, neither will the corner shop)

Then again it might spectacularly fail and we all waste a few hundred quid in stuff to invest plus indebt ourselves with a lease if we're unlucky, if anyone who ever got nervous about filling a gap in the market never did it we wouldn't have half the useful stuff in the world we do today.
____________________
Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

mentalboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:32 - 11 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

st3v3 wrote:

Then again it might spectacularly fail and we all waste a few hundred quid in stuff to invest plus indebt ourselves with a lease if we're unlucky


Bear in mind that many retail and commercial places operate long leases, they're pretty much all 6 year leases round here. Going tits up in the first six months would saddle you with remaining lease term, unless the landlord could get another tenant.
____________________
Make mine a Corona.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:33 - 11 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is definitely why you have a LIMITED company, to limit your liability Smile.

Oh and I was thinking - for most deliveries, a normal push bike with panniers is likely fine. Could insulate the panniers, even consider a small heating element or something. I've had 4 bags of shopping in my panniers with a 17kg bag of dog food on top and it does fine.

Also look less conspicuous.

I generally take stuff I'm sending on the push bike and have done trips with stuff like (on one trip) couple of 2 stroke expansion chamber pipes, car wheel with tyre, few smaller boxes. Ok, that sort of thing starts to get a bit flaky, but you won't be getting stuff nearly as unwieldy.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:54 - 11 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

So there's lots of takeaways that don't deliver, but presumably there's more that do deliver? Why would people pay £5 for you to deliver when there's lots of places that do deliver for free? You say you'll offer alcohol, tobacco and other retail items, other than a few stoners I can't see many people being interested.

There's no shops open past 8pm, does that include petrol stations? Out of interest what city is it that doesn't have anywhere open past 8pm?? Tesco, corner shops, One Stop, Cost Cutter, etc etc etc are all over the place, why do you think there's nothing like that in a city that thrives on convenience lifestyle?

I can't see how you'd make any profit at all unless there's something very significant that I've missed in this thread. Confused
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Shaft
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:03 - 12 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there really aren't any convenience shops open past 8pm (must be the only City in the country where there aren't) then have you thought about why that might be?

I guarantee you, if there was a market for it, some ethnic minority origin type person would be doing it by now.

Having retail premises is a massive drain on your resources, given that's it's going to be a telephone/internet driven business and the cost of operating a high street store is hugely more than an off street industrial unit.

It doesn't have to miles from anywhere, just not an on street retail premises, you'll probably reduce your ongoing costs by anything up to 50%.
____________________
Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:09 - 12 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

A carefully chosen industrial unit could be a good bit higher percentage cheaper than that, in fact massively more than that if you do it right and often still be pretty close to the town centre.

I'd almost wonder about using an industrial unit as storage/base and a large van, maybe with trailer (but trying to avoid operators licence) as a 'base'.

Or ditch the unit and have the storage in a big shed in someone's back yard.

Drive in to the area, park up and cycles go out.

If you are making money from the walk-in retail of course it's not so bad, but it's generally pretty hard to make decent money from this from what I've seen and on money made vs all sorts of hassle, not a profession I would choose.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Shaft
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Dec 2010
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:15 - 12 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH G, if it was me (and it wouldn't be, I can't see how this business makes money, with four shareholders involved) I'd operate out of a back bedroom or garage, see how it goes and then expand as required.

No rent/rates/lease involved at all.

I'm also still trying to work out how this is any different to Just Eat; I've just looked and even at this hour, I can get pretty much anything delivered to me right now, plus it asks me when I want it, in 5 minute increments up to 12 hours in the future.

I thought the USP of this business was forward planning, but I can already get that, so what's new?
____________________
Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 01:58 - 12 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, the forward planning stuff I don't really see.
I've never known anyone to ever actually use the 'order in advance' option on any online fast food thing - there's a reason you're ordering in and that's generally laziness Smile. That doesn't work with pre-planning.

Getting places that don't do delivery I would see as a market - lots of people have favourites, but not all do deliveries. Plenty of places will also charge a bit for delivery; I can see it not being a big stretch to paying a fiver if you're talking a reasonable group of people all ordering stuff - say at least 7 or 8. Especially if they happen to be intoxicated at the time and either don't want to go out because of that, or because they're too busy doing whatever they're doing.

But yes, I'd tend to agree on starting small.
If it was a case of buying an existing shop with proven sales, I'd say there was more potential there as you know you're quids in already and you're putting yourself at less risk from the extra - though certainly such shops these days are usually run by a family and the money goes towards that one family, not 4 people.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Sabs
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 12 Nov 2013
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:12 - 12 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm agreeing with most of the cautious people on here. Why rent to start with? Do you know how much work you'll have to do just to break even on the rent? Especially if it's £70k P.A, You'd be cycling around 24 hours a day just to pay for that, £1350 per week just to pay for the rent!

It's an unnecessary cost, work from home or a small unit, you may get less orders but you don't to work as much to cover the costs.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 10 years, 78 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Dear Auntie BCF... All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.10 Sec - Server Load: 0.1 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 141.56 Kb