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st3v3
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PostPosted: 16:15 - 12 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Convenience...

There's (this is where it get's worse Laughing ) 3 big supermarkets open 24/5 in the city, all edge of town and all at opposite ends.

There's tonnes of takeaways that offer delivery, probably less that don't, but not 1 chippy (for example) does.
There's places in town ( like frozen yoghuart and specialist fudge shops) that are niche but close at 5/6 and are just shops.

We can get alcohol at wholesale cost, we are using courier pannier styled cycles for 80% of innercity stuff.

This isn't something we decided to undercut Just-Eat with, or rival current takeaway drivers in..

You can't get a chippy tea, with a bottle of wine and crate of beer plus a cake/trifle/choccy bar delivered as 1 package anywhere in the region at this point in time, and given how many local shops are agreeing to have flyers in windows (free advertising) there's an element convincing them too.

The 'pre-order' thing is because people in offices dont always want to trek round supermarkets after a 12hr day or even wait in a pizza hut for 20mins, they definitely can't go into pizza hut and come out with a pizza & bottle of wine so we deliver both to their doorstep at the time they want. If they spend £17 in total and delivery is £2 they're still most likely using the same £20 note, does it really matter they're down £2 because it was delivered? they'd have spent more time/fuel getting it themselves.

How do we not make a loss? prey there's multiple deliveries in a given area most of the time. Laughing
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G
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 12 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, along with the mention of offices, I would be very tempted to look at lunch time deliveries to companies. Both for those trying to do catering for guests on the cheap and for staff.

When the snow was bad a few years ago and the sandwich van wasn't coming around (and sometimes when the weather was ok), I'd do a run to subway on my motorbike. Ok, compared to the time taken by everyone queing up at the sandwich van, they probably saved money - but just my time gone probably cost them way more than a fiver.
You could even look at doing deals where you agree to do deliveries, picking up from say upto three places for say, half price - providing they block-book a week/month at once. Ideally, you get a load of offices in a similar area.
This is something having been on the other end I've definitely thought there was a market for (ie, wondered about a Subway franchise and offering delivery with an online system, as knew plenty of people that wanted that.)
On that, actually... Starbucks. For your aplle-using-wannabe types. When I worked there we had quite a few asking if would deliver - as we didn't, they'd phone ahead so we get the order ready and one car would come over to collect.
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 12 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Actually, along with the mention of offices, I would be very tempted to look at lunch time deliveries to companies. Both for those trying to do catering for guests on the cheap and for staff.
...corporate tabs... that is an idea. Thinking

As eloquently as Rob put it Laughing that's the point, it's for the people that are too inconvenienced to do the shopping themselves that use it, them being perfectly happy they can get on with whatever's more pressing.

I know I'd love to be able to get home after a 10hr shift, and hand £15/£20 over to someone delivering my nights edibles in a box.

(paypal/card options are being looked into by the retail expert)
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G
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 12 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the corporate stuff, as went my thinking when I was idly pondering such stuff... ideally an online system (but accept phone orders too - maybe with the aid of a pad you can send out to them with options) so that people can say have a 'standard' menu that gets delivered to them, but that they can change if they update the order in time.
For those who are always a bit short on cash, ideally arrange it so the next month/week is paid for in advance on payday, with a bit of a discount of course to encourage them to do that. That way they know they'll get at least one decent meal a day and so on.
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 15 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

See this is what I like the idea of, property wise:

Quote:
Offices approx 31 sq.m ( 330 sq ft ) divided into reception, office and former control room (cab office)


Plus:
Quote:
RATES
The property has a RV of £2550. There should be no rates payable until at least 2013 given the Governments temporary rates relief for small businesses.


So with an "attractive weekly rent" it seems pretty straight forward, no?[/quote]
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 03:09 - 19 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just googling some stuff and this thread came up Laughing

How many people were right to be wary...
But, in my defense, it did work. Thumbs Up

We eventually got a shop with a fixed years lease for not lot of money for where it is, which is pretty much city centre.
Alcohol Licence was an issue, I don't think either of us realised what a ball ache it was getting any red tape cut, we've been at it for 6/8 weeks jumping through council hoops.

That said, the company as a concept took off better than expected.
What I'm most proud of is aside from the lease; everything we managed was self funded, no loans or anything that ties us to financial weights should we fold it all.

Having to look at getting a cheap App made, most takeaways in the city are tired of paying Just Eat a 12% charge for the benefit of being listed on a fancy directory, so we're changing how that works - custoers happily pay the company £2/3/4 delivery ontop of an order but takeaways are offering to pay for services too.

So the plan for 2015 is have some contracts we've had made up signed by said takeaways, so eventually all pay the company a set amount a month to us, we provide drivers for their deliveries and have them listed with menus on our site.

Smile it's almost like JE doing deliveries, and offering sweets/drinks all in the same order. Wink
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 03:23 - 19 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before anyone digs and points out flaws in the plan, I will say please be considerate don't shoot down something you don't like, can't imagine or can't work out... because for the last 6 months this has been a working operation and paying wages, at peak times there's 4 drivers covering a big variety of outlets - we're turning away work from small takeaways that don't employ drivers because we haven't yet recruited enough to guarantee the supply.

Some figures:

say a burgers and fries costs £2.50, we deliver it 2 miles from outlet for £3.
Costs less in fuel than we charge, better if we have a multi-drop.

say a burgers and fries costs £2.50, we deliver it 2 miles from outlet for £3. If chocolates are wanted then we sell 2 pouches for £4, buying at ~£1 a pouch it's double profit ontop of pennies in fuel. (again, better if multidrop)

The same applies with a typical newsagents worth of stock, realstically, how many of you can order your favourite indian plus a pouch of aero and a bag of malteasers for the misses?

We've been asked for other bits, like flowers delivered ontop etc so we charge a £1 per additional pickup on whatevers requested, get the hot food last so it's still delivered fresh and we have a reasonably built business model - it has had it's effing stresses, but in the end it's worthwhile, we're at least the only company in the North of England running this service and with supermarkets having issues people are ordering in more.
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Tungtvann
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PostPosted: 03:46 - 19 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really great, glad you've been having some success. I don't know much about business, but it would have been the idea that I would have been unsure of, but it seems to have taken off somewhat.

Continued good luck and I hope it all goes well in this next year. Thumbs Up
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 19 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad it's worked out. Absolutely shocked/stunned that it worked out but glad all the same. Thumbs Up

Would you say you are more profitable than your competition (i.e. independent Polish delivery drivers working out of their cars with relatively small overheads) ?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:48 - 19 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good on you for giving it a go.

Out of interest, are you running it with employees, with all the welfare-state-by-proxy obligations, or as a partnership?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 19 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice. How about a BCF discount, including for the haterz who tried to piss on your bonfire? Razz
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Wonko The Sane
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 19 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for consideration what often happens in our house

I get home just before my wife needs to go out for the evening, our daughter is 14 months old and asleep upstairs, I am not leaving the house.

Just eat has minimum order value which is more than anything I'll manage to eat and I can't stand spending more money just to waste food.

The chippy is a 5 min walk and doesn't deliver, the curry place next to it will only take delivery via just eat
The burger and pizza place will deliver phone orders but as usual I've no cash on me.


Edit, ah, never mind, serves me right for skipping a bit

So, I need a service that will deliver with a lower minimum order value than just eat but take card payments.

How much will my £3.59 fish and chips from the end of the road cost me if you deliver it? £5?
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prawny1
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 20 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take away - check
beer - check
dessert - check

Weed? Laughing Laughing
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 26 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Good on you for giving it a go.

Out of interest, are you running it with employees, with all the welfare-state-by-proxy obligations, or as a partnership?
With employees, on the Admin side the simplest choice was to take inspiration from Just Eat (around the time we had a chat with their rep) and setup a deal with local takeaways, since outlets make profit from produce and we don't produce anything we charge them for services, JE charge a 12% levy on orders processed for the convenience of being part of their directory, which is just a specialised directory.
say 15 independent takeaways/chipshops that don't have drivers and aren't listed on JE pay us 1 drivers wage per day, say we have the numbers in staff to cover any delivery they need as quickly as if they had their own driver? We dont get orders to as many of them as listed but are paid for the convenience of being there - pays overheads.

I handle hiring myself, I need to know given how busy we are that drivers who represent the company are trusted, these are by referral rather than welfare appointment. I take them on for 'pocket money' and judge potential, if they're not a good fit they don't get offered full time work.
One thing I have noticed is that bikes for this work would be very handy, easy to see why Marm chooses to do so much of it, and his workload isn't temperature dependent. Confused

Is it stressful? Fuck yes, its became obvious who true friends are, what business is like in a city that loves food and wants everything *now* Hardest part for me personally was last month, certain deadlines were looming so I was really stressing out, one of my businesses partners was a bit of a dick and he felt a bit of pressure from my end, rows were had (some infront of staff) resulting in him leaving the company the same week my grandma passed away.
This was hard for 2 reasons, mostly because out of 4 partners me and him were the active 2, while I physically built the business 80% myself with 3 others' support he knew the whole thing inside out and invested a massive amount of energy, cash and time in.
Also because when this whole thing was a bright idea on the drawing board and everyone laughed it off my grandma was the only person who sat me down, listened to me talk about plans and strategies she couldn't understand but see how much ambition and drive I had for this thing, it was probably the single most driven idea i'd come up with... the idea of a shop lease got no enthusiasm from her, instead I got a wary response and a lecture on how quick things can go bad.
Never the less, after a month of sticking to my guns she sent me to the bank to withdraw a deposit for the lease; I was ecstatic.

Wonko The Sane wrote:
Just for consideration what often happens in our house

I get home just before my wife needs to go out for the evening, our daughter is 14 months old and asleep upstairs, I am not leaving the house.

Just eat has minimum order value which is more than anything I'll manage to eat and I can't stand spending more money just to waste food.

The chippy is a 5 min walk and doesn't deliver, the curry place next to it will only take delivery via just eat
The burger and pizza place will deliver phone orders but as usual I've no cash on me.


Edit, ah, never mind, serves me right for skipping a bit

So, I need a service that will deliver with a lower minimum order value than just eat but take card payments.

How much will my £3.59 fish and chips from the end of the road cost me if you deliver it? £5?
That depends, we have no minimum order amount just the courier charge, 3 bands on a distance tier.
within a half mile of Citys most central point; £2. Upto, say, 2 mile? £3. To say, 4 mile? £4.

We base our radious from the shop, and stress we are couriers so our fuel rate is our base cost. Thumbs Up
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iooi
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 26 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done for making a go of it.

But on this point.
Quote:
JE charge a 12% levy on orders processed for the convenience of being part of their directory, which is just a specialised directory.


They are also the company that take the card payments. So they take the hit on the % charge for taking these. As well as any charges for passing the money to the retail outlet.
As well as the hit for any fraud... And I know they are hit pretty often with this as well.
So while they offer retailer nothing more than a directory listing. They have quite a lot of overheads.

As a aside I once delt with someone who set up exactly the same set up as you. They started taking card payments.
Some little scrote used parents card while they were away. Parents went ape got money back via bank and they went bust. As the profit made per transaction was so small that there were no profits to cover the loss.
I actually had to speak to her as she rang in pleading to get the chargebacks dropped....

So if you go the card payment route. Be very careful and make sure you see the card Thumbs Up
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 26 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
Well done for making a go of it.

But on this point.
Quote:
JE charge a 12% levy on orders processed for the convenience of being part of their directory, which is just a specialised directory.


They are also the company that take the card payments. So they take the hit on the % charge for taking these. As well as any charges for passing the money to the retail outlet.
As well as the hit for any fraud... And I know they are hit pretty often with this as well.
So while they offer retailer nothing more than a directory listing. They have quite a lot of overheads.

So if you go the card payment route. Be very careful and make sure you see the card Thumbs Up
I guess that's part and parcel of the game, JE have done very well for themselves but also taken a good few years to get where they are. In this area, it's not hard to get a share of their market.

As for cards, it's an avenue being constantly reviewed because you're right, charges and frauds are the big risk factor. We do paypal, and 90% cash on delivery (i dont like that bit) - we did decide that for card payments it would be a mobile terminal.

We had only 1 prank order as losses go, and cost £20 but staff chipped in and bought the order so made sure found out who the customer was.

I'm just happy I had a go, and have no regrets about 'what ifs'. Thumbs Up
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Sun Wukong
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 07 Jan 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done for going for it Thumbs Up

I was just linked here from this thread, and it's good to see a positive start.

Also great to see you making a success of it after so much criticism, as I am sure my friends plan will also recieve just as much (if not more). But like yours, if it gets past that it could be a runaway success.

Anyway, best of luck for the future, and at least you don't have to worry about gym fees anymore Laughing
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 15:27 - 05 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit of a resurrection sorry people Embarassed but thought I would update as a help for a few that have read and got any help from seeing the process.

Starting a business isn't easy, whatever anyone tells you.

I wouldn't know where to start describing it but at the very least it's a sobering experience.

Going back to roughly where I left off the business was going well, for something that is naturally very risky (people are cunts, customers can be a nightmare and it's always your fault) we did very well.

For 6-8 months the shop ticked over, but wasn't paying its way. We had to funnel money in from elsewhere, stock didn't sell fast enough because the wrong person was handling it - had we put someone friendly on the counter things would have been different.

The problems? As a few here said the customers paying a few quid per drop wasn't really enough. I didn't want to admit that and I was wrong.

Lesson learnt? take the (free) feedback and work out how to solve a problem not ignore it. Here's a timeline of what happened from October last year when everything was going well:

Business is fine, daily deliveries by cycle and cars but sometimes customers are ordering and waiting 90mins-2hours for their order. They are fine with this (honestly) but i'm not, start rejecting orders to keep a decent timeframe Shocked this goes on for 4-5 weeks.

November is here and more people order, evenings are dark and cold, hype about the company is big, can't move for chatter about it Twisted Evil but my best friend who's jointly running things has a little breakdown and steps back, so we slow down a bit. mid November my Grandma (who gave half deposit for shop) takes very ill, goes into hospital and I'm told she has maybe a week left.. I was in denial and dug myself deeper into work, spending time just sleeping, visiting her and working. End of November she passes away, as i'm getting ready to go see her at 9am one morning I get the call from the Hospital Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

So, trying to carry on was my sole focus. The same week I got that call one of my business partners (the stock guy) decides he's had enough and after a txt debate he quits, I believed he was joking but no, 2 days later he cleared all his stuff out and took the stock with him. I had sold this stock for orders, so it was a shock and raging moment to see the shelves and fridges empty when I opened up that day Evil or Very Mad

I carried on, the drivers went to their day jobs and started doing less hours, I ended up for a week or 2 doing it all single handedly, come New Years Eve enough was enough and I gave up; around Feb time I gave up the shop and I guess started mourning while I was finally sorting out her house/belongings.


2015:
This year for me has been all about getting the business foundations set up properly and seeing the first try as a cheap but very valuable trial run.
My plans are to contract takeaways like Just Eat do, and see how 6 months go of having money coming in from the other end of the scale.
Why? Because since we started this as a big idea there has been 3 other firms start with actual capital and have made it work so there is a model to it, at the moment both Just Eat and Uber are looking into the idea and 2 of the actual food brands are trialling home deliveries themselves.
It's my opinion that in 3 years or so, Directory services will be a thing of the past, companies like mine will become the first contact point for ordering and despite all the CEO's out there that can take a salary and throw money at ideas to make it work, without the vision of what the customer wants they can't make it work.

I have a meeting tomorrow for viewing a new premises that can handle more traffic (staff parking is a bitch of an issue) and actual couriers passing by (more on that later) so as long as in the next 6-8 weeks a few takeaways sign up and the customer demand is even half the same I see no reason why it can't be a leading brand in a developing industry.
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 05 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well you're persistent aren't you? Wink

After so many set backs you must have learnt so much that you can avoid the pitfalls in future.

Good luck with the new venture. I do admire your determination and energy. Your Gran would be proud.
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 05 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I probably am just a bit too ambitious Laughing but my own parents laughed at the concept as did my ex (she works for McDs) and most of my friends. Grandma probably saw the determination and invested in me, so honouring the sentiment is all I can do in return now.

The way I see it if I fail I go find a normal job again, hopefully back in car rentals but doing my thing is much more motivating.
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BakesBeans
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 05 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just re-read this thread, and I'm glad you made a go of it. I'll admit I didn't fully understand the model at the start, but to clarify:

If I wanted Cod & Chips, and a Curry I ring you up and you deliver? Do I pay you cash on delivery?

I take it you then go and collect the grub from the two outlets, try and up-sell your stock, and deliver to me?

Do you pick up the chips, curry last on route to me? Why not collect the chips when the driver is passing, and store them in a warm area you have in your premises (like the heat lamps in a restaurant)? I dare say when you're busy you *may* be collecting 10 curry's from the curry house per hour, so how do you work in your economies of scale - which is where the profit it?

Doesn't this make you a corner shop who delivers, but will also collect a takeaway for you?
I don't really see why you need a shop front to be honest. You have the street presence with the fliers, and you haven't advertised yet!

I'm genuinely interested, as my day job is being a problem solver and working out the most efficient, hence profitable, way of doing things (not in the takeaway world mind).
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st3v3
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 05 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to worry.. the whole idea still confuses many people, more-so the less tech savvy that aren't necessarily online.

Full process briefed here:

Customer decides at 7pm they want a specific indian takeaway for tea with a McFlurry and 4pack of corona.

Customer orders this via our Facebook page or email giving address and asking ETA.

Our job is to check the nearest driver free who (carries a small cash float) drives to our shop.
As the driver makes their way in we order the food, the driver comes to pick the Corona up and then heads straight to McDonalds for the McFlurry because they stay cold longer than the Indian stays hot, after McDonalds the driver picks up the Indian.
The driver at each point updates the cost, this way we easily tally up charges and work out an ETA, many places change prices at the tip of a hat so we never quote.
Once the driver gives the last price update we send back a total to them and the customer plus ETA.
Then either cash on delivery or paypal.

Theres kinks to work out and it is a mountain of work but the personalised service works with both takeaways and customers.

The shop is needed because its the only sensible option to stock alcohol, confectionary and store parcels.

Last year we had 2 pranks orders, costing about £35 all in, so for 8months of operating its not that bad.

We will be doing cards payments and get a website/app sorted out but... baby steps!

For those who pickup on it and ask, why parcels? Its another quirk to the service, dozens of people here miss their parcels and have to go collect from a depot after work, sometimes the van isnt back yet or the depot is closed... So we take delivery in the daytime and deliver it with the food at night.
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monkeybiker
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 05 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

st3v3 wrote:

For those who pickup on it and ask, why parcels? Its another quirk to the service, dozens of people here miss their parcels and have to go collect from a depot after work, sometimes the van isnt back yet or the depot is closed... So we take delivery in the daytime and deliver it with the food at night.


That would be useful. I might need to have something delivered to me by courier but I don't want to wait in for it. You would need insurance for this I would have thought?

I often use argos service were they deliver to a local argos and I go pick up.
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 11 Aug 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the process of working out what exactly, if you mean for damages etc then no, it's a personal service and should anything get damaged we would list it either within part of a claim of an accident or if a staff member was the cause we would have to replace said item.

There has to be different levels of terms set out for this too, obviously the abuse potential is up there... wouldn't want someone having their mate that owns a hydroponics company send them any produce for example, isn't fair to risk our drivers carrying.
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