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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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 Posted: 08:51 - 21 Feb 2014  Post subject: |
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Positives: magistrates and defence solicitors will get to deal with pissheads while they're still reeling and reeking, rather than scrubbed and faux-contrite.
Negatives: soooo many appeals. "My client was clearly unfit to represent himself..."
On the whole I'm in favour, and I hope the Scotch politicos are watching with interest.
It won't happen though, the Sir Humphreys will kill it in committee.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Copycat73
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t121anf
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Copycat73
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mogstar
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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Rogerborg
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Hetzer
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lihp
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| Posted: 12:20 - 21 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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Heard about this on Radio 5 this morning.
It's a right wing 'think-tank' that put the proposals together.
Talked to a magistrate who says most of the report makes sense.
However, he dismissed the idea of magistrates courts in police stations.
This as it does nothing to dispel the thoughts that they're all in it together.
i.e. the magistrates would not appear to be independent, just rubber stamping whatever the police wanted.
So the cynic in me thinks if the magistrates don't want it to happen I expect the government (any party) to impose it as soon as possible.
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...and the whirlwind is in the thorn trees, it's hard for thee to kick against the pricks...
Gibbs, what did Duckie look like when he was younger?  |
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mogstar
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Rogerborg
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| -Matt- |
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-Matt-
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| CaNsA |
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CaNsA
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 14:22 - 21 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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| daemonoid wrote: | Having seen the police in operation I can tell you the difference between a 'medical emergency' and drunk and disorderly and it's simply whether the cop likes your face. |
Then the magistrates will get to see you in much the same condition that the copper saw you in, and can decide for themselves, rather than judging you four months later based on some notes in a pocketbook.
If you're already settled down and ever so contrite, or indeed passed out, then wouldn't that play in your favour?
Best case, die in the dock, that'll show the bastards.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
Last edited by Rogerborg on 15:13 - 21 Feb 2014; edited 1 time in total |
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| Posted: 14:36 - 21 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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| -Matt- wrote: | The cumulative effect of everyone ''doing something we've all done once or twice'' is why you have to sit and wait for hours in hospital every friday night and weekend.
I don't think its acceptable even if its a one off - if it results in police and medical involvement, it denies other people services and costs lives because someone doesn't know when to put their drink down.
Bit of an exception if you're talking about full blown alcoholics that obviously needs treatment not repeated punishment and locking up every week which is an equally big counter-productive problem, but general friday night drunk 'visits' need way more enforcement, its over burdening the whole NHS.
In terms of topic in OP - I can see situations it could make sense and save a lot of time and cost if taken through courts as usual, but seems a precarious path to take considering how quickly it could lead to a miscarriage of justice in many cirucmstances. |
Pah, that one off is one of the few times most of us will get to use a service we've been paying for...
I guess you've been a bit too drunk at least once in your life? If not, imagine a close friend or loved one who has... how did they get out of the situation? Most likely some friends helped them home? In which case are you really suggesting we punish people whose friends don't help? D&D charge just because your mates suck?
The situation is the same whether you make it home or not. Two similar people could drink the same amount and one gets lucky and gets to their own bed, the other ends up in a cell. Surely they committed the same crime? Surely we're not going to remove a national safety net we all pay for just because some people have unfortunate circumstances?
Instead, it's the persistent offenders that need targeting, and the violent ones. Conveyor belt 'justice' is not the answer for that...
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| smegballs |
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smegballs
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mogstar
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 15:19 - 21 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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And again, crying foul because a law might actually be enforced highlights a problem with the statute, not the enforcement.
Yes, I do think that applies to many laws, like fixed speed limits and possession of Certain Substances.
I have a lot less of a problem with rowdy drunks being hauled before a magistrate and judged on the condition that they're actually in. That would seem to be putting the facts of the matter directly before the court.
Who do you imagine is responsible for their condition? Their chums? The folk who sold them the booze? Society?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 16:19 - 21 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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| daemonoid wrote: | Does convicting some rowdy drunk make them less likely to do it again? Or does it mean they lose their jobs and chance of a future and thus more likely to do it again? |
Doesn't that apply to any crime?
Thing is, for once I actually sort of agree. D&D should mean a night in the cells, maybe a casual shoeing if you kick off too much[*], then kicked out in the morning. I used to live behind a cop shop's cells, and the weekends sounded like Bedlam, but the local town did not, in fact, collapse into a police state.
But then came Procedures, and Targets, and Sanctioned Detections, and now coppers can't tackle disorder unless there's a box to tick to pass the issue on to the next cog in the machine.
It does all seem very pointless, but I'll hammer on the point that the problem is with the rules, not with coppers playing to them.
[*] Because saints rarely sign up for police recruitment.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| daemonoid |
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daemonoid
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| Posted: 16:54 - 21 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | Doesn't that apply to any crime?
Thing is, for once I actually sort of agree. D&D should mean a night in the cells, maybe a casual shoeing if you kick off too much[*], then kicked out in the morning. I used to live behind a cop shop's cells, and the weekends sounded like Bedlam, but the local town did not, in fact, collapse into a police state.
But then came Procedures, and Targets, and Sanctioned Detections, and now coppers can't tackle disorder unless there's a box to tick to pass the issue on to the next cog in the machine.
It does all seem very pointless, but I'll hammer on the point that the problem is with the rules, not with coppers playing to them.
[*] Because saints rarely sign up for police recruitment. |
I agree too, the problem is with the rules... Streamlining them in this direction is the exact opposite of the change I want to see.
Given that we both agree that the rules are the problem and that this will just lead to stricter enforcement with less due process can you explain why you're pro the plan?
____________________
current: ducati monster 750
past: hyosung gt250r, bajaj pulsar 180, hyosung gt 125 comet
@thomasgarrard | www.straitjkt.com | www.racingseven.com |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 11 years, 349 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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