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HardDriver |
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 HardDriver Nova Slayer
Joined: 26 Feb 2014 Karma :     
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 Posted: 16:49 - 26 Feb 2014 Post subject: The best all round bike in 125cc class |
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First of all, hi. I'm not an england, so my language can be sometimes hard to understand, but I try my best .
I want to ask you one important question? That question is very important to my and it's very confusing, so what's the best all round bike in 125 class? Which one have best reability, acceleration, top speed, not big prices, but that's okey, if bike is really really good and parts (easy to find and aren't expensive). I can buy from england too, but as I see, you guys have really good prices for some bikes . If you interested, then I'm from east Europe. I'm watching bikes from all Europe, watched in England too, but prices are too much I think, but if you now good places or something like that, then why didn't?
I realised, that 2 stroke are the best in 125 class, because it's very fun and fast bikes, 4 stroke are more for lazy, calm guys . 2 stroke aren't realible such as 4 stroke, but I heard they can be same. If you don't disagree with me, then say why?
Also I realised, that enduro is the best, because I like off-road and I have places for that. In spring and autumn I will be driving in school every day, so I need enduro with good tyres in off-road and in road. Also as I say, I need REALIBLE . If you don't disagree with me, then say why?
Okey, I'm sorry again if my english is hard to understand, but I think you understand something ?
To improve my english knowledge, how was it? Hard to understand ? Also I heard that's the most popular forum in England about motorcycles? Is it true ? |
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 G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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rhys1005 |
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 rhys1005 Crazy Courier
Joined: 02 Oct 2010 Karma :  
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 Posted: 18:42 - 26 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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What G said.. But also if it's a DT make sure it is has a ypvs and that it's working.
Mine never and low down in the revs/ off the line.. my mates gs125 would blow past it and offroad it was absolutely useless. Don't get me wrong, the suspension and height was great for the light off-roading I wanted to do. BUT the low down grunt just wasn't there.. At all.. Even going up a slight incline in a high gear, on road I was constantly slipping the clutch. Even my ybr was better off road!
I would probably either get a ktm 125 exc and go all out (aswell as a cheap and reliable cg125 etc). Or get a standard 4 stroke 125 commuter, stick knobblies on it and some how raise the air intake/end can.
Even with the YPVS I don't imagine the DT having enough power or being any good at an enduro? Can't you get a unplated enduro bikes then a on road 125cc to commute on? |
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c_dug |
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 c_dug Super Spammer

Joined: 04 Sep 2007 Karma :   
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_Iain_ |
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 _Iain_ Banned

Joined: 01 Feb 2012 Karma :     
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 Posted: 20:18 - 26 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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CR125.
Very reliable...really strong gearbox.
Nah, used I'd buy a DT125. New you're kinda limited, so if it was for road use a Rieju MRT125 Pro.
DT is a reliable two stroke & incredibly popular. Looks nice, goes well.
MRT is a four stroke. However it makes more power than all the other four strokes, it's very tuneable and looks the part in the competition green. Doesn't have any nasty EFI so easy to work on too. ____________________ Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340 |
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 G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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 Posted: 21:38 - 26 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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Does the MRT make more power than a MZ125 4 stroke . |
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thx1138 |
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 thx1138 World Chat Champion

Joined: 06 Oct 2005 Karma :    
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 Posted: 23:18 - 26 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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I found KMX 125 to be very fast off road, but then my fast is everyone elses slow, and I haven't owned one for nearly 20 years.  |
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 G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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 Posted: 23:50 - 26 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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stevo as b4 |
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 stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :   
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 Posted: 18:23 - 27 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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To me it depends on how much road equipment you want/need, and how practical you want it to be? Then in the case of 2stroke's there is autolube vs pre-mix bikes.
Asssuming we are just talking trail/endure bikes and not factory SM's, which for 100% highway use are probably better, then it boils down to reasonably capable, practical bikes like:
KMX125, MTX125, TS125R, DT125R CRM125, and the thumpers like the DR125, XT125R WR125R, XLR125 etc etc.
The above would all be great on the road, the strokers are all autolube, but they would be a few kg heavier than more competition orientated bikes, and the biggest downside would be the suspension, less travel and less sophisticated and possibly less ground clearance too.
The inbetween bikes might be:
KDX125, Aprilia RX125, Cagiva W8, Husqvarna WRE125 etc.
Bit better suspension maybe, and less all rounders.
The Comp bikes like the EXC125, Gas Gas EC125, Fantic Caballero, TM125, Husqvarna WR125 etc, will be the most capable chassis wise and the best off road but maybe not for novices though?
The competition bikes are anything up to 10bhp more powerful than the 2stroke trailes, but as the power goes up the delivery gets less gradual and easy to use IMO. All these bikes will have lower gearing, no autolube, and very few practical features beyond a key ignition and a steering lock.
Personally if I wanted to re-build something for a beginners endure bike, id chose say a KDX125 or Aprilia RX125 etc, as these bikes would have the chassis enough to enjoy and make use of their capabilities in the dirt, but would be more novice friendly, less peaky and a bit lower than a full on MX'er with lights which is what the EXC's etc are closer to IMO. |
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Dischord |
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 Dischord World Chat Champion

Joined: 08 May 2005 Karma :  
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G |
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 G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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 Posted: 20:16 - 27 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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stevo as b4 wrote: | To me it depends on how much road equipment you want/need, and how practical you want it to be? Then in the case of 2stroke's there is autolube vs pre-mix bikes.
Asssuming we are just talking trail/endure bikes and not factory SM's, which for 100% highway use are probably better, then it boils down to reasonably capable, practical bikes like:
KMX125, MTX125, TS125R, DT125R CRM125, and the thumpers like the DR125, XT125R WR125R, XLR125 etc etc.
The above would all be great on the road, the strokers are all autolube, but they would be a few kg heavier than more competition orientated bikes, and the biggest downside would be the suspension, less travel and less sophisticated and possibly less ground clearance too.
The inbetween bikes might be:
KDX125, Aprilia RX125, Cagiva W8, Husqvarna WRE125 etc.
Bit better suspension maybe, and less all rounders.
The Comp bikes like the EXC125, Gas Gas EC125, Fantic Caballero, TM125, Husqvarna WR125 etc, will be the most capable chassis wise and the best off road but maybe not for novices though?
The competition bikes are anything up to 10bhp more powerful than the 2stroke trailes, but as the power goes up the delivery gets less gradual and easy to use IMO. All these bikes will have lower gearing, no autolube, and very few practical features beyond a key ignition and a steering lock.
Personally if I wanted to re-build something for a beginners endure bike, id chose say a KDX125 or Aprilia RX125 etc, as these bikes would have the chassis enough to enjoy and make use of their capabilities in the dirt, but would be more novice friendly, less peaky and a bit lower than a full on MX'er with lights which is what the EXC's etc are closer to IMO. |
I'd take issue with a few of your points stevo -
The CRM isn't very good off road. Ok on hard pack, but it uses a pretty stock NSR engine AND gearing! I had a +10 sprocket on mine, but given really muddy situations the lack of low down power did matter - while it had a similar engine character to a 200EXC or the old non-powervavle 350 enduro I had; with those bikes there was plenty of power and low gearing to get it going in really slippy conditions. The NSR engine doesn't, so even on the flat you sometimes can't get up to speed - you either use the clutch and it spins up, or it just doesn't make enough power to deal with the situation.
Oh and pretty sure a 'thumper' should be a big 4 stroke - don't get much 'thump' with a 125 .
Also, the KTM LC2 is worth a look. It uses a DT engine, but in a KTM chassis, so could be considered 'best of both worlds'.
Dischord wrote: | It's the KTM EXC 125 hands down, amazing bike. |
Not very good for 'reliable' when you compare service intervals. Not ideal for 'driving to school every day.
But yes; for top speed, acceleration and handling it does pretty well. As do other competition 2 strokes, of course.
Saying that, some people do use them daily regardless and seem to do ok |
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Fladdem |
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 Fladdem World Chat Champion

Joined: 29 Jun 2011 Karma :   
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 Posted: 20:57 - 27 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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Not very good for 'reliable' when you compare service intervals. Not ideal for 'driving to school every day.
But yes; for top speed, acceleration and handling it does pretty well. As do other competition 2 strokes, of course.
Saying that, some people do use them daily regardless and seem to do ok. |
I've said it before, my mate used to commute 15 miles each way on an EXC 125 2013 model four days a week. plus hooning every night and weekend.
His so called pre-mixing was filling the tank, if it said 4 litres or less it was one squirt out the bottle, more than 5 was two.
He never did any maintenance, no gearbox oil change, never took it steady, would rev the nuts off it from cold! MX on it, enduro on it, he claimed it said 106mph on the speedo once and it would lift with a bounce and rev, no clutch, in third. His bulk over the rear may have helped.
For a "highly-strung competition enduro bike" it was stone cold reliable, my mate has blown up his DT, riding similarly a million times, he's currently awaiting a piston from Sunday's seizure. The KTM has done 5000 trouble free miles.
I think if you know how to treat a two stroke right, let it warm up before nailing it anywhere, use nice oil, and do a bit of maintenance when it is needed, it should last for miles, my mates NSR has done 12,000 trouble free miles, still original piston, although a ring change at 10,000 just because he felt like it needed it. My MT5 has done 17,000 on original piston, although the rings need doing.
Just pick the nicest two stroke you can get your hands on and worship it, should last you well.[/quote] ____________________ Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget. |
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 G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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Fladdem |
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 Fladdem World Chat Champion

Joined: 29 Jun 2011 Karma :   
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 Posted: 21:51 - 27 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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G wrote: | That was one of the examples I was thinking - however, actually, 5000 miles isn't a massive amount in the grand scheme of things - 100 hours at a 50mph average, 200 hours 25mph and so on.
You'd expect a good number more hours than that with competition enduro use, which is also likely to be a little more 'intense'. |
True, I never thought about it in hourly use. Which is unusual, as all competition bikes use hours as schedules, which is so much better than miles. I work with hours on my TTR, or try to as best as I can.
100 hours isn't a lot really, I think if I saw a competition bike with 100 hours use, I wouldn't worry too much about expensive bills, depending on the seller, if he seemed to be pretty anal, he could have my money.
Although my 'reliable bike' has done 18,000 KMs. Could finally be the old girls age catching up with her, but I have had nothing but trouble, I only get to ride for a few weeks at a time, then it's back in the garage again, letting Yamaha arse rape me for parts for my grey import. This time its all the bearings from the swinging arm back are knackered. I've got rear wheel steering.
Last time, it was an oil leak. Which has returned after 2 months and replacing every gasket on the bike. Before, it was low compression, so I got a rebore while I was in there. Before that was a snapped frame when I took her round a motocross track, so I welded a solid metal bar inside the frame tubes, to stop it happening again, wleded her back together again and then put support plates over the weld, not pretty but it works.
She has cost me nearly £3,000, including £1100 buying her. If I had known and just took 3 grand and put it towards another bike...
Anyway, off-topic, but THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CHEAP BIKE! ____________________ Current:1991 Honda MT50 (Soon to be a H100/MTX/MT5 hybrid), 1976 Honda Cub C70, 2005 Honda Varadero 125, 1993 Yamaha TTR250 Open Enduro , 2010 Road Legal Stomp YX140, 1994 Honda CRM 250 MK III, 1999 Cagiva Mito 125, 1992 Honda CB400 Super Four, Stomp T4 230, 1984 Honda H100s, 2009 Sym XS125K
Past:2003 Aprilia RS125, 1982 Kawasaki GPZ550(FREE BIKE!)
I'm having more fun than a well-oiled midget. |
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 G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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stevo as b4 |
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 stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :   
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 Posted: 10:57 - 28 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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G, ok so I can't shout up a 125cc 4stroke as a thumper that's a very fair point! I tend to use collective terminology on a lot of things, like calling a turbocharger a blower etc.
As for the CRM125, I've never had or ridden one and don't know much about them. But from what you are saying they sound like more of an off road styling exercise with an NSR engine?
I kind of expected more of them I guess, carrying the CRM name which in 250cc form is a great off roader.
It makes me think that the MTX125RWF is a much better off roader than the CRM, having both different gear ratio's to the MBX125 and a different power delivery, probably due to exhaust and airbox tuning, but the poting might be different to the MBX too.
Oh and yeah the very rare KTM LC2 (sister bike to the Sting) was very nice looking and well specced in the chassis department bike, but with DTR power/reliability.
They did do for a very short time a bike called the 125EXE which was a 15bhp restricted machine, but with a full EXC motor, It just had a different carb and exhaust to make it learner legal. |
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 G The Voice of Reason
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rhys1005 |
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 rhys1005 Crazy Courier
Joined: 02 Oct 2010 Karma :  
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 Posted: 14:09 - 28 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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I'd love to own a brand new comp enduro bike.. Imagine how long it'd last with proper maintanence! if they can withstand abuse from morons but still make it 18 or so years then I reckon one babied it's whole life would last forever. If I had the money I'd get a brand new highly strung 4 stroke with 10hr or so service intervals and plan to keep it forever and forever  |
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 G The Voice of Reason
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_Iain_ |
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 _Iain_ Banned

Joined: 01 Feb 2012 Karma :     
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 G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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 Posted: 20:57 - 28 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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What is involved in derestriction?
Though missed that you were discussing new - the MZ is no longer available as far as I know.
It made dead on 14.6hp or whatever, I believe.
Oh and 17hp - about the same as listed for a 35 year old CB125T I think. Progress, eh?  |
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bladerunner |
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 bladerunner World Chat Champion
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_Iain_ |
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 _Iain_ Banned

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stevo as b4 |
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 stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :   
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 G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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 Posted: 15:05 - 01 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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The dirt bikes likely had fatter power lower down, as it matters off road.
Of course that sort of power would be seeing an urgent rebuild in an NSR. Around about right for a stock derestricted NS125R... which probably costs less than just the extras for the 4 stroke.
Looks better, too . |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 11 years, 230 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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