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| metalangel |
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 metalangel World Chat Champion

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 - Super Spammer
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| Lord Percy |
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 Lord Percy World Chat Champion

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 Posted: 23:14 - 09 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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If I were a famous gay and had the power of the BBC to give me general physical (and political?) safety, I would be right over there as a representative for the fight against the moron homophobe herd.
In this instance, I don't think boycotting would really work. That would just be a win for them. What they need really is a full invasion of unattackable homos, such as this woman . |
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| Ribenapigeon |
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 Ribenapigeon Super Spammer

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| Im-a-Ridah |
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 Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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| -Matt- |
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 -Matt- World Chat Champion
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 Posted: 10:19 - 10 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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I think its fairly pointless to blame and scapegoat select individuals following their career for attending. They should be asking the people that awarded the olympics to them why they got it - but then after the likes of China having it I doubt they care, so long as their pockets are being filled generously
On the topic of the severity of homophobia in Russia though, worth a watch. https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od.
Its obiviously focused on the worse cases, but does highlight the widespread lack of care from the police and other authorities about the issue. |
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| Ribenapigeon |
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 Ribenapigeon Super Spammer

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| -Matt- |
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 -Matt- World Chat Champion
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 Posted: 10:51 - 10 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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Yeah, I must admit if I was one of them i'd probably still attend though, admittedly with a bad after taste, as i'm sure many experience. Its unfortunate the olympics is as big and dominating as it is really. The days of it being a 'great sporting get together' are long gone in my opinion - its just a huge commercial product now.
The majority of these athletes work day in day out to train at their sport in the hopes of reaching the top which for them is the olympics - boycotting it is like a formula 1 driver just not turning up for a race. Career opportunties and future sponsorship in them will likely go down the drain.
Its easy for everyone on the outside to say 'oh but think of the morals!'. I expect they'd all still goto their day job in a similar situation though
Looks like they've kept the protesters fairly battered into submission calm so far. Not sure the 2018 world cup will go so smoothly though, considering the amount of football hooliganism in Russia  |
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| Ribenapigeon |
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 Ribenapigeon Super Spammer

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| Flatbadger |
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 Flatbadger World Chat Champion

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| angryjonny |
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 angryjonny World Chat Champion

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| Benno |
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 Benno World Chat Champion

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 Posted: 15:01 - 10 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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[In my vocabulary, faggot =/= homosexual person. It means an annoying person of any background, or an excessively flamboyant, feminine, irritating, personality-and-ideology-based-on-my-sexuality homosexual person, usually male]
The media incitement against Russia is fucking pathetic.
When have we ever had this much hype over the Winter Olympics? Never as far as I can remember. Just this time, "the gays/trannies" decided to kick up a fuss. The reality, I imagine, is that a few militant faggots and trannies were upset and started "waging war" on twitter, and then hordes of progressive "allies" decided to take up their cause on their behalf, and the media - being braindead progressive parrots that are of the belief that anything that goes against their cultural ideals is objectively wrong and they haven't simply misinterpreted the situation or just misunderstood it - whips itself and "the public" into a fury over the "injustice".
The reality is that most of the public don't care - the media just tell them that they do - and it's pretty much a manufactured ire against Russia's "anti gay" laws. The only people genuinely annoyed are the few militant fags/trannies, and the "allies" (ironically the larger group of the two).
Put it into context. Many countries have anti gay laws in the world - shock horror! The UK itself had anti-gay laws until fairly recently.
Furthermore, Russian law and society doesn't actually penalise people for being gay. They just don't want them waving their dicks around in massive public parades.
And as for the apparent "irony" of all the "homoerotic" aspects of Russian culture/the Sochi Olympics (such as two toilets in one room) - come on now political left, aren't you supposed to be the ones that are understanding of other cultures? Something we are dumb enough to consider homoerotic doesn't mean it's homoerotic to other cultures. On top of that, not everybody who disagrees with you is a "closet homosexual", that's just a buzzword you like to use when you are losing an argument.
https://www.scribd.com/doc/203382931/Russian-Lgbt-Law-White-Paper ____________________ I'm autistic. That means I'm smarter than you. |
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| -Matt- |
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 -Matt- World Chat Champion
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 Posted: 15:17 - 10 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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I think the fuss is justified, albeit pointless - over the winter olympics you're probably right about it not having happened before, but previous olympics have had equal fuss kicked up over them, and equally little happened because of it as I expect will be the case with Russia now, they couldn't give two
China had the same protests and calls for boycotting over human rights and tibet etc when it hosted the main olympics a few years back. I think the 'shock' factor comes from the fact a lot of the general public people see Russia as a big developed country sometimes, almost part of Europe, so to have laws that would probably not get passed in the EU so close to it makes them get hot and bothered.
I would disagree about the penalisation of LGBT communities by Russian society though - although the law might not penalise them directly it does little to stop the common abuse and ill treatment of those communties which happens on a regular basis and is tollerated by a large amount of people as the norm. To be honest though, its not much better in lot of eastern europe. Poland and its eastern neighbours aren't exactly welcoming to gays generally either, just a culture divide really  |
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| Ribenapigeon |
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 Ribenapigeon Super Spammer

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| Harold_Shand |
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 Harold_Shand World Chat Champion

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| trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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 trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion

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 Posted: 05:42 - 11 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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| Benno wrote: | The reality is that most of the public don't care - the media just tell them that they do - and it's pretty much a manufactured ire against Russia's "anti gay" laws. The only people genuinely annoyed are the few militant fags/trannies, and the "allies" (ironically the larger group of the two). |
That's not ironic. I assume we're talking about the UK. If so, most people aren't gay, but believe that people should have the right to pretty much do what they want, providing it's not harming anyone else. Why would they not speak out - apart from the fact that we live in an abjectly apathetic and politically retarded society?
| Benno wrote: | Russian law and society doesn't actually penalise people for being gay. They just don't want them waving their dicks around in massive public parades. |
You are wrong on that latter point.
What was it Putin said - "feel calm and at ease, just leave kids alone." Why would anyone assume that there are fewer acts of hetero paedophilia than homo? Answer: because they are at best ignorant fucktards, or at worse, have consciously embarked on a much broader mission of intolerance - to be accomplished in part by reinforcing people's misconceptions and prejudices.
Don't get me wrong - I can't quite give a fuck what goes on in Russia, nor what culture they're trying to create there. But please - don't be so naive as to think they might not want to inaugurate an illiberal, comparatively intolerant society that is quite distinct from Europe and the US.
| Benno wrote: | And as for the apparent "irony" of all the "homoerotic" aspects of Russian culture/the Sochi Olympics (such as two toilets in one room) - come on now political left, aren't you supposed to be the ones that are understanding of other cultures? Something we are dumb enough to consider homoerotic doesn't mean it's homoerotic to other cultures. On top of that, not everybody who disagrees with you is a "closet homosexual", that's just a buzzword you like to use when you are losing an argument. |
Probably some truth in that. But really - why say the "political left"? The general ambience of political correctness you're indicting is far - FAR - from restricted to the left. For one thing homophobia is rife in certain communist countries - Cuba e.g. Secondly, the vast majority of these liberal lovies who tell us to not to be "gender blind" or "colour blind" are totally and utterly blind to class. They are not in the slightest bit left wing.
It pisses me off that there's this constant conflation of political correctness with the left. Seriously - fuck that shit. The right is the home of liberalism. Neo-liberalism, etc. etc. Yes true, it might not sit well with conservatism (this contradiction was something Thatcherism had to contend with throughout the '80s - on the one hand strong law and order, on the other total deregulation and the rolling back of the prohibitive state). But don't try telling me the left is responsible for the likes of Claire fucking Balding's spineless bullshit, and god knows what else. ____________________ "Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
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 map Mr Calendar

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 Posted: 10:57 - 11 Feb 2014 Post subject: Re: Clare Balding a 'sell out' says LGBT community |
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| Benno |
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 Benno World Chat Champion

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 Posted: 13:02 - 11 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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| trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote: | That's not ironic. I assume we're talking about the UK. If so, most people aren't gay, but believe that people should have the right to pretty much do what they want, providing it's not harming anyone else. Why would they not speak out - apart from the fact that we live in an abjectly apathetic and politically retarded society? |
Yes, most people believe we should have the right to "do pretty much what we want". Our culture of banning fun things and telling people they can't do things we consider dangerous aside, you're largely right about that.
The truth is that homosexuals are not barred from being homosexual and [doing gay stuff] in their own time in Russia. For some reason many people believe this to be the case, though. The reality is that a man can kiss a man on the streets of Magnitogorsk or Moscow and receive no more or fewer funny looks than he would in London or Manchester, and that would be that.
| trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote: |
You are wrong on that latter point.
What was it Putin said - "feel calm and at ease, just leave kids alone." Why would anyone assume that there are fewer acts of hetero paedophilia than homo? Answer: because they are at best ignorant fucktards, or at worse, have consciously embarked on a much broader mission of intolerance - to be accomplished in part by reinforcing people's misconceptions and prejudices.
Don't get me wrong - I can't quite give a fuck what goes on in Russia, nor what culture they're trying to create there. But please - don't be so naive as to think they might not want to inaugurate an illiberal, comparatively intolerant society that is quite distinct from Europe and the US. |
Show me where in Russian law it actually punishes a person for being homosexual.
| Quote: | Probably some truth in that. But really - why say the "political left"? The general ambience of political correctness you're indicting is far - FAR - from restricted to the left. For one thing homophobia is rife in certain communist countries - Cuba e.g. Secondly, the vast majority of these liberal lovies who tell us to not to be "gender blind" or "colour blind" are totally and utterly blind to class. They are not in the slightest bit left wing.
It pisses me off that there's this constant conflation of political correctness with the left. Seriously - fuck that shit. The right is the home of liberalism. Neo-liberalism, etc. etc. Yes true, it might not sit well with conservatism (this contradiction was something Thatcherism had to contend with throughout the '80s - on the one hand strong law and order, on the other total deregulation and the rolling back of the prohibitive state). But don't try telling me the left is responsible for the likes of Claire fucking Balding's spineless bullshit, and god knows what else. |
I somewhat agree, but we're digressing a bit here. ____________________ I'm autistic. That means I'm smarter than you. |
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| trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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 trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion

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 Posted: 13:55 - 11 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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| Benno wrote: | Show me where in Russian law it actually punishes a person for being homosexual. |
Give it time. But yeah - by "latter point" I meant that *although* there is no explicit, codified anti-uphill gardener crap, I would argue that you are being a teency bit naive if you think that all they DON'T want is "them waving their dicks around in massive public parades." I mean, aside from what exactly is wrong with gay parades (although straight away it must be noted that Russia seems increasingly against massive public parades of ANY kind, unless it is to queue up to oil Putin's pecs), the whole paedo comment seems indicative of a slightly uhm blinkered view right at the top of the pile.
Either this is an attempt to reflect commonly held prejudices, or to construct them. The reality will probably be a fucked up dialectic process where both sets of phobic forces feed off each other, leading eventually to some form of legislation - much like the old Section 28 here. Likely worse than that, knowing the Russians.
And if it doesn't, the cynic in me thinks that would only be due to the anxiety of attracting adverse attention from Europe and the US. As I said though, the stronger they become, the less they will give a fuck about international opinion, and the more repressive their state will develop. Hopefully I'm being pessimistic. ____________________ "Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
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| Benno |
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 Benno World Chat Champion

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 Posted: 14:15 - 11 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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| trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote: | | Benno wrote: | Show me where in Russian law it actually punishes a person for being homosexual. |
Give it time. But yeah - by "latter point" I meant that *although* there is no explicit, codified anti-uphill gardener crap, I would argue that you are being a teency bit naive if you think that all they DON'T want is "them waving their dicks around in massive public parades." I mean, aside from what exactly is wrong with gay parades (although straight away it must be noted that Russia seems increasingly against massive public parades of ANY kind, unless it is to queue up to oil Putin's pecs), the whole paedo comment seems indicative of a slightly uhm blinkered view right at the top of the pile.
Either this is an attempt to reflect commonly held prejudices, or to construct them. The reality will probably be a fucked up dialectic process where both sets of phobic forces feed off each other, leading eventually to some form of legislation - much like the old Section 28 here. Likely worse than that, knowing the Russians.
And if it doesn't, the cynic in me thinks that would only be due to the anxiety of attracting adverse attention from Europe and the US. As I said though, the stronger they become, the less they will give a fuck about international opinion, and the more repressive their state will develop. Hopefully I'm being pessimistic. |
Homophobia is not being constructed by the Russian government; they are merely doing what any good government would do ( ), and reflecting the wishes of the people. Russian people do not like homosexuality.
That said though, one could say that they show some restraint when compared to other countries that 'dislike' homosexuals, since they do not actually penalise them for it and let them get on with their lives - as long as they don't shove it in people's faces like these kinds of people.
https://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/6/8/1339168130506/Gay-pride-parade-008.jpg ____________________ I'm autistic. That means I'm smarter than you. |
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 trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion

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 map Mr Calendar

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 Posted: 14:50 - 11 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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| trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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 trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion

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 Posted: 15:11 - 11 Feb 2014 Post subject: |
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Of course, of course. I meant "machismo" as opposed to machismo. Apparently he is only 5' 1". ____________________ "Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 12 years, 8 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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