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'73 CB500 rain = electrical problems

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Matte Black
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Joined: 04 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: 05:20 - 04 Feb 2014    Post subject: '73 CB500 rain = electrical problems Reply with quote

My first post here, nice to meet yall!

So we just had a snowstorm this morning that I braved on my '73 cb500 four. Dumb, I know but that's besides the case...

It was snowing and raining pretty hard and my engine was soaked. After about 3 NYC blocks my RPMs and power dropped dramatically and had to practically floor it to keep it going. Knowing I was running on only one or two cylinders I looked down and noticed my first and last spark plug cables arching to my engine! Although my cables have shocked me before, I managed to pull it far enough from the engine and felt another cylinder join in. The other side I had no luck. I putted another block and it died on me. The storm was so bad I wheeled it on the sidewalk and caught a cab home.

When the roads/storm cleared I came back about 5 hours later to get my bike. After chiseling it out from under the snow I tried to start it. The starter rotated a few times and it ran out of electricity. Not even enough for a dim headlight. I tried to kick start for 15 min to no avail. I ended up walking it a mile to my parking garage where it is now thawing out.

Regardless if it starts tomorrow or not, I need a water proof cafe racer! What's next that I should do? Replace my spark plugs? Spark plug cables?

If it doesn't start, should I attempt a car jump start? Dumb question??

Thanks!
-Joseph
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 08:54 - 04 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd replace the HT wires (spark plug cables), spark plug caps and invest in a new battery whilst you were at it.

Invest in a multimeter so you can check if the alternator is behaving itself.
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pdg
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PostPosted: 11:07 - 04 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jump starting from a car isn't an issue, just so long as the car is 12v and so is the bike... You might well find a few people who will tell you that a car electrical system has 'too much power' - but that's crap.

A new battery might not be a bad idea, but if it was encased in snow a decent charge might well bring it back to life - they don't like extreme cold (check the water level if it's a wet type and also the case for distortion due to possible freezing and/or charging anomalies). I might well be the only person in the world to not recommend the optimate sort of 'smart charger', I had one and it declared 3 batteries 'beyond recovery' that I subsequently recovered using a home made linear charger Wink

I can't remember if the coils on those have replaceable HT leads or if they are moulded - you need new leads whatever. If they are moulded you can do a special bodge by taking off the plug caps, slipping some silicon tubing over the leads and sealing both ends with some silicon sealant and putting new plug caps on - the arcing is caused by the insulation breaking down.

As teme said, get a multimeter - then read the instructions or get someone to show you how they work. A multimeter is a requirement to be considered male, if you don't have one then you are a 14 year old girl. Thumbs Up
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 04 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

pdg wrote:

I can't remember if the coils on those have replaceable HT leads or if they are moulded - you need new leads whatever. If they are moulded you can do a special bodge by taking off the plug caps, slipping some silicon tubing over the leads and sealing both ends with some silicon sealant and putting new plug caps on - the arcing is caused by the insulation breaking down.


A quick squint on the interwebs shows he is lucky and they are the denso style with the clamp on terminals, lucky boy.
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Matte Black
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 04 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, thanks for your feedbacks temeluchus and pdg!

Its pretty clear that I need to get new HT cables and plug caps. I have some new plugs as well that I need to pop in as I think the arching could also be a gap issue with the current plugs. I'll get on it!

It sounds like a new battery is due as well. I think they are better with cold. Lately for about two weeks, before this winter storm incident, I've only had one chance to start up the bike with the starter, and then it dies, and I've have to kick start. I have a suspicion that my battery may be draining while parked. Could this be possible?

Yes, I'll get a multimeter. Especially now that pdg threatened my manhood. Wink

Thanks guys! I'll try and start/jump it tonight as I think its probably thawed. I'll let ya know what happens.


Last edited by Matte Black on 02:56 - 06 Feb 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 04 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Joseph - and welcome.

I used to have a 1975 CB550F1 which had the original plug caps fitted.When riding in rain it used to stutter and misfire,so I fitted some NGK plug caps which cured the problem.

If you have not seen https://forums.sohc4.net/ before it is a very active site in the USA,as is https://www.sohc.co.uk/ in the UK

As for the standard coils,the plug leads are not replaceable as they are moulded into the coil body.You could try cutting off 5mm or so off the end so that the plug cap makes a better connection with the copper wire Thumbs Up
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Matte Black
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PostPosted: 03:10 - 05 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Fizzer Thou, I will def be replacing the caps ASAP. I'm sick of getting shocked too! And I'll def check out SOHC, seems right.

But as usual, not fixing this small issue has caused a greater one...

Now that the bike is thawed, I tested it, and it didn't start at all. Not even close. Sad

Here are the symptoms:
- (New issue) Starter makes a humming sound and doesn't rotate
- Has power as headlight is bright, so it didn't attempt a jump start.
- Won't kick start at all. Not event a pop.

It seems something has failed in getting the plugs to spark...

Right now, I can't really afford to just replace everything in the electric dept and hope I fixed it. So if anyone knows some tests I can run or what cheap parts I could try an replace, that would be great.

Thanks!
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 04:07 - 05 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

hose the electrics down with wd40 or similar to chase out any water.
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Matte Black
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 05 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

temeluchus wrote:
hose the electrics down with wd40 or similar to chase out any water.


I will when I get it running! Thanks.

In the meantime, I'm getting power to the horn, lights, signals, etc. but the starter and plugs aren't working. Ya think I could have water in it still?
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iooi
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 05 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matte Black wrote:
.

In the meantime, I'm getting power to the horn, lights, signals, etc. but the starter and plugs aren't working. Ya think I could have water in it still?


Starter takes a lot of power to turn over.

WD 40 over plugs, leads etc will clear off any damp.

Give the battery a good charge. Cold is a real killer to batts when stood doing nothing.
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 05 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

useless pissing around with it until you dry it out! get the wd40 out before you try and fix anything. surely you can spend a couple of dollars for WD40
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Matte Black
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 05 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks ya'll, I'll try WD40 & jump. Grabbing a multimeter too to check my coils. Will let ya know.

Thanks!
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Matte Black
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PostPosted: 02:12 - 06 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I bought a multimeter and the battery has less than 2v with ignition off. It jumbles around 1.7v-1.8v...

Safe to say it needs to be replaced? Or should I buy a charger? (Won't be able to find a jump) Or both?
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Matte Black
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 06 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyways, I went ahead and ordered a new battery.

Here's my plan:

1) Try new battery when it gets here
2) If battery doesn't work, test my coil (primary and secondary sides) with my multimeter. Order a new one if it doesn't have proper Ωs
3) If coil checks out fine, and still won't start, write you guys again. Wink
4) Once I get it running, replace all spark plugs, caps, and HT wires. Water proof new hardware with WD40.


Thanks all for your help!
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 07 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matte Black wrote:
Anyways, I went ahead and ordered a new battery.

Here's my plan:

1) Try new battery when it gets here
2) If battery doesn't work, test my coil (primary and secondary sides) with my multimeter. Order a new one if it doesn't have proper Ωs
3) If coil checks out fine, and still won't start, write you guys again. Wink
4) Once I get it running, replace all spark plugs, caps, and HT wires. Water proof new hardware with WD40.


Thanks all for your help!


Stuff like this is also very useful for old electrics:

https://www.sprayon.com/products/clear_electrical_lacquer_sealer

It helps keep water out and can help old insulation along.
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Matte Black
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 07 Feb 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

temeluchus wrote:
Stuff like this is also very useful for old electrics:

https://www.sprayon.com/products/clear_electrical_lacquer_sealer

It helps keep water out and can help old insulation along.


Good to know, will def grab a bottle. Thanks temeluchus
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