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Corporal Punishement

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smegballs
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

Should corporal punishment be used as a alternative to prison for crimes that don't endanger the public?

Prison deprives you of a large part of your life, gives you a history that makes it hard to get a job etc etc. With corporal punishment you take the blows, get treated by a doctor and then go about your business.

Obviously the whipping etc would need a doctor present to monitor the convict, and can call a halt if they are in danger. The idea is to inflict pain, not permanently damage them.

If you have the choice of 5 years of 30 lashes, what would you take?
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 19:43 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:

If you have the choice of 5 years of 30 lashes, what would you take?


That would very much depend on whether you meant 30 lashes over 5 years or possibly 30 lashes daily/weekly etc for 5 years.

Theft/robbing - remove hand (s)
Sexual/violent - castration
Let's see what that does to crime figures!

EDIT: You can forget the doctor too, the little bastards have already cost enough without having to fork out for a GP as well
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nowhere.elysium
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
Sexual/violent - castration
Do you believe that what was done to Alan Turing was correct, then?
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

smegballs wrote:
Obviously the whipping etc would need a doctor present to monitor the convict, and can call a halt if they are in danger. The idea is to inflict pain, not permanently damage them.

If you have the choice of 5 years of 30 lashes, what would you take?



Er because it doesn't work?

There are parodies of this in newspaper cartoons, like pickpockets being publicly flogged, yet in the crowds who come to gawp there are pick pockets.


Additionally humans are pretty tolerant, they can get used to things quite quickly.


For example when I went to India backpacking, didn't have a solid one for months, initially the gut cramps and pain was crippling. After a couple weeks, it was kind of meh, run into a toilet spray it with watery turd. Walk out and not really feel a thing.

Ballarinas when they go on pointe (their feet are horrible) it is cripplingly painful when they first do it. But then it becomes meh, the mind filters it out.

Or even in Chinese 're-education' camps where individuals are tortured there for YEARS regularly, not lashes torture.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't got a problem with chemical castration for predatory paedophiles, rapists etc.

Anything else, bring back gladiatorial games. Trial by combat Thumbs Up
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

Anything else, bring back gladiatorial games. Trial by combat Thumbs Up


That's honestly all I see when I look at MMA fighting.
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-Monty-
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
Theft/robbing - remove hand (s)
Sexual/violent - castration


Those punishments seem a little out of proportion. Theft/robbery surely is a lesser crime to rape/GBH etc, and yet I would rather be castrated than have my hands cut off in all honesty.

Corporal punishment may work for very petty crimes. However, probably not for more serious ones. For example, if there was someone I really, really didn't like and wanted to hurt, I probably wouldn't act on such urges as I know imprisonment would likely ruin my life. Although, if I knew that by beating someone senseless all I would get were a few floggings and thats the end of it, then I would probably just think, meh I can deal with a bit of physical pain.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think most people are missing the point that what if someone innocent gets convicted. Prison is bad enough.
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

some people enjoy pain Thumbs Up
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:45 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Chemical castration for any first offence, also applied to any children to prevent the family line carrying on. Give it a generation or 2 and the problem should go away.

Wink

All the best

Keith
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 21:54 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

nowhere.elysium wrote:
mentalboy wrote:
Sexual/violent - castration
Do you believe that what was done to Alan Turing was correct, then?


So Alan Turing was a paedo/ testosterone rich thug now was he? If my memory serves me right he was a homosexual, are you implying that homosexuals are paedos/rapists (Because I implied nor stated either)???
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

monteme0 wrote:
mentalboy wrote:
Theft/robbing - remove hand (s)
Sexual/violent - castration


Those punishments seem a little out of proportion. Theft/robbery surely is a lesser crime to rape/GBH etc, and yet I would rather be castrated than have my hands cut off in all honesty.

Corporal punishment may work for very petty crimes. However, probably not for more serious ones. For example, if there was someone I really, really didn't like and wanted to hurt, I probably wouldn't act on such urges as I know imprisonment would likely ruin my life. Although, if I knew that by beating someone senseless all I would get were a few floggings and thats the end of it, then I would probably just think, meh I can deal with a bit of physical pain.


And you thought I was a little tough???

' if there was someone I really, really didn't like and wanted to hurt....by beating someone senseless'

So not OK to punish a criminal but OK to beat someone senseless just because you really, really don't like them????
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
So Alan Turing was a paedo/ testosterone rich thug now was he? If my memory serves me right he was a homosexual, are you implying that homosexuals are paedos/rapists (Because I implied nor stated either)???


The point is that being a homosexual in the 50s/60s was analogous to being a paedophile now.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back on topic:

'Should corporal punishment be used as a alternative to prison for crimes that don't endanger the public?'

What do you mean by 'crimes that don't endanger the public'?

Unless I'm misinterpreting you, well, I think they should be legal.
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-Monty-
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
And you thought I was a little tough???

' if there was someone I really, really didn't like and wanted to hurt....by beating someone senseless'

So not OK to punish a criminal but OK to beat someone senseless just because you really, really don't like them????


Probably didn't word that right. I don't mean just someone I had a falling out with - say just a difference of opinion - anyone who beats someone up for that clearly has something wrong with them.

I mean, for instance if someone where to rob/mug/burgle me or hurt a friend or member of family then I would (and I'm sure most other people would also) feel inclined to give the person a beating.

I wouldn't do so now as I don't want to go to prison. But if it was just a few minutes of pain then for most people I'm sure it would be a different story.

How many people on here have wished death upon motorcycle thieves?
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TheSmiler
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PostPosted: 22:18 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:
mentalboy wrote:
So Alan Turing was a paedo/ testosterone rich thug now was he? If my memory serves me right he was a homosexual, are you implying that homosexuals are paedos/rapists (Because I implied nor stated either)???


The point is that being a homosexual in the 50s/60s was analogous to being a paedophile now.


No offense times were obviously different, a lot of people were still brainwashed into believing about a magic man in the sky. Now pedophilia is not going to change any time soon. Seriously doubt that in 50-60 years time people will think oh the joy lets rape a child it's normal.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:

The point is that being a homosexual in the 50s/60s was analogous to being a paedophile now.


Not really.

At the time, being a practicing homosexual was a criminal offence and Turing pled guilty to gross indecency, at which point he was given the option of prison or probation, the conditon of probation being, he was given a course of hormone treatment.

Then, as now, a convicted paedophile would've had no such choice, prison was the only option.
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Derivative
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

monteme0: The only reason that sort of stuff generally comes about though is because people aren't forced to restitute properly.

If someone nicked my bike, and then they were forced to actually pay me back the value of the bike plus incidental expenses, I wouldn't really feel that much ill will towards them at all.

But that very rarely happens. You have to deal with it yourself and the perpetrator even if caught probably gets let off with a fine or some such nonsense.
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G
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

I thought they did get offered non-custodial sentences?
I'm thinking of the case fairly recently where some teenage care home kid that couldn't have male members of staff working with here because she acted so 'inappropriately' basically kept badgering a bloke to let her give him a blowjob.
There was a big hoo-ha because he didn't get a particularly harsh sentence and someone dared to suggest that the girl played a part too (who would think a teenage girl had sexual thoughts anda ctions - obviously that couldn't have been the case!)

Maybe sometimes with the requirement for 'therapy' or whatever and so on.

I'd suggest the bigger issue on the original question is the cost to society of running prisons!
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

G wrote:
I'd suggest the bigger issue on the original question is the cost to society of running prisons!


legalise or decriminalise drugs and half the prison population Thumbs Up
America is already going down that road
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:
monteme0: The only reason that sort of stuff generally comes about though is because people aren't forced to restitute properly.

If someone nicked my bike, and then they were forced to actually pay me back the value of the bike plus incidental expenses, I wouldn't really feel that much ill will towards them at all.

But that very rarely happens. You have to deal with it yourself and the perpetrator even if caught probably gets let off with a fine or some such nonsense.


Very true. How often does a person who stole someones car have to pay back the market price after they total it.

At a guess, never?
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Tungtvann
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

oldpink wrote:
G wrote:
I'd suggest the bigger issue on the original question is the cost to society of running prisons!


legalise or decriminalise drugs and half the prison population Thumbs Up
America is already going down that road

Prisons are for profit in the US, why would they want to do that?
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Very true. How often does a person who stole someones car have to pay back the market price after they total it.

At a guess, never?



Bah how often do you get your rented house deposit back?

At a guess never?

Same with bankrupts, I only respect one bankrupt, a friend of my dad.

Oh he went bankrupt but when he got back on his feet again he paid back ALL of his creditors with interest.
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-Monty-
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Derivative wrote:
monteme0: The only reason that sort of stuff generally comes about though is because people aren't forced to restitute properly.

If someone nicked my bike, and then they were forced to actually pay me back the value of the bike plus incidental expenses, I wouldn't really feel that much ill will towards them at all.

But that very rarely happens. You have to deal with it yourself and the perpetrator even if caught probably gets let off with a fine or some such nonsense.


Yep, I pretty much agree with that. Although, this wouldn't really work either as this could end up generating more crime.

The average bike thief is basically a low life parasite. He gets caught stealing a bike and is made to pay the monetary value back plus other costs and such. Said bike thief now has no money left after having to pay out so just goes out and steals another bike/other item to make the money back because god forbid he go out and get a job.

So, in summary, corporal punishment is not really the answer in my opinion; making criminal pay back money is likely not an option either and really, nor is our prison system.

The best answer really is to toughen up prisons. I worked in a prison for about 18 months and still occasionally do a bit of weekend work there. I have absolutely no doubt that many of the inmates have better living conditions in prison than they do outside. There is nothing there to suggest that they are being punished aside from the fact that they're not allowed out. I would say it can be closely compared to a school but a prison generally has far better facilities.

The only people who would take prison seriously if they are sent there are the ones who don't need to be there (i.e. they've made a one off stupid mistake, maybe while they were drunk, and they deeply regret what they have done. These people don't need rehabilitating. It's the idiots that are constantly in and out that need to change, but they won't because they have a nice cushty life in prison.

Anyway, bit of an off topic rant. Sorry Smile.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 28 Jan 2014    Post subject: Re: Corporal Punishement Reply with quote

I'm opposed to the whole corporal punishment thing. I don't think making violence acceptable in that way is going to be positive for society. Paedophilia seems to be the one people jump on first for these gruesome punishments, but it's also one of the offences where it would be the least effective. Paedophiles need psychological help, and to be kept away from potential victims whilst they are a risk of offending. Not only would these brutal punishments be ineffective but they would also actively deter people from seeking treatment. Punishments really should be tailored to the crime. If someone wants to be a violent or antisocial drunk causing trouble in town centres, why give an £80 fine? Give them a 12 month ban from all town centres past 9 or 10pm, and a ban from all licensed premises. For an offence like burglary of a residential property or violence against a person consider giving prison terms where they must actually serve the full time, and perhaps half or three quarters of that in solitary confinement.

oldpink wrote:
G wrote:
I'd suggest the bigger issue on the original question is the cost to society of running prisons!


legalise or decriminalise drugs and half the prison population Thumbs Up
America is already going down that road


As I've said before, I'd support a system where people could legally obtain drugs for personal use from a pharmacy by registering as a drug addict and getting prescriptions from a drug clinic of some kind. If you're coming at this from a freedom standpoint then I'm sure you would favour repealing all of the laws against free speech, bans on various types of hunting, bans on certain types of firearm and things like that... right?
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