Is a Phd worth it?

[fatpies]

So nearing the end of my masters course I am getting invitations to Phd courses.

One which caught my eye was a university PhD scheme where you work for this university and get an annual £14500 tax free as a stipend for the 3 years it will take to complete. I can't remember the exact details of the funding.

But one of the conditions was that you would also be required to do a 0.6-0.8 position as lecturing and running classes in your specialist subject.

Doing the maths it seems they benefit, as a university lecturer will get paid 30K a year. Therefore they get a lecturer for half the price for 2.5 years and you get the Phd.


My question is, is it worth it? the ability to say its not Mr its Dr.... in that I already (sometimes) teach at University level.

Just nearing the end of my masters has opened up a lot of avenues.
____________________
"It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one"

[nowhere.elysium]

If you're only after the financial implications, I wouldn't bother. Do a PhD for yourself, not for your work.
____________________
'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[P.addy]

Cheaper to buy some land, get that title and then deed poll name to Mr Doctor

Lord Mr Doctor.

Yes.

[Rogerborg]

3 more years of getting paid to party with students? Best years of your life.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[GhostRider]

If you're in it for some supposed financial incentive once completed then you'll probably be disappointed, and not have the motivation to do the level of work required.

If you thoroughly enjoy the subject matter, and feel like riding out the need for employment for a few years then go for it.

I regret not doing one sooner, what I didnt know at the time was that the stipend would have been equivalent, maybe slightly better, than my working salary for the first few years of employment once graduated from BSc. These days I'd be taking a substantial paycut that I couldn't really manage. So depends what kind of wage you can comfortably live on as well.

GhostRider
____________________
I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.

[sabian92]

At the moment with the job market as it is even with a Master's degree I'd snatch their hand off for a paid position. And you get a PHD out of it.

[drbaig]

I have a masters in biomedical science and I have been struggling to find a job. So if I was in your position I would take that stipend and do the phD.
____________________
yzf 600r

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

It depends on a number of factors imo - firstly, do you have a clear idea of both the area you will be researching and the way in which you will "produce new knowledge" (one of the main criteria by which a doctoral thesis will be assessed)? Secondly, do you know who will be supervising your thesis? If not you could be lumbered with someone you don't get on with and who doesn't care about you or your area of research. Thirdly I would be careful of taking on the lecturing load if you're not familiar with the work entailed and the way that 6 hours can involve more like another 12 hours behind the scenes work. Tenthly, blah.
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[daemonoid]

You're not experienced like a lecturer and not doing the research at the same expected rate either.

It's well worth it though - a PhD is very well respected and will open the door to many employment opportunities. Companies love to show of their PhD employees, if you can speak comfortably you'll be earning 6 figures before you're 35 (assuming you haven't missed a few years).

Take the job for what it is... the chance to increase your employability and get a PhD for free.

And the drinking...
____________________
current: ducati monster 750
past: hyosung gt250r, bajaj pulsar 180, hyosung gt 125 comet
@thomasgarrard | www.straitjkt.com | www.racingseven.com

[lihp]

If you have a significant other, discuss it with them as well, with regards to how much you're both willing to sacrifice.

My OH is currently doing a PhD, I work 45 hours per week, and we probably only see each other maybe 10 hours per week.

However, I am also studying with Open University so we both understand and know the workload.

But if your other half isn't academic, then if they can cope with you do 9hour+ days 6 sometimes 7 days per week for the 3 years, then it cam be a real strain.
____________________
covent.gardens: lihp is my most favourite member ever

[GhostRider]

[daemonoid]

[drbaig]

There are things to consider that other people have mentioned because what ever you will be researching is going to be very niche. Very specific.

Doing research on that topic for three years can actually drive you mad, phD is a very lonely place because only YOU know about that research. That is the whole point of doing a phD. The supervisor thing is also important, because one of my MSc dissertations on familial factors had a German professor and he could not give two tosses about it. I got a decent mark for it (don't know how) but it was not a good experience.

Thirdly, you have to be comfortable at recruiting people because you get all sorts of bell ends wanting to volunteer who are not interested in the study but just want to fuck you about. You start sussing them out pretty quickly though.

The teaching part requires you to do lectures on certain topics that will be involved in your research. I remember this guy coming and giving a lecture on flow cytometry. He was an awful teacher but talking to him one to one, very smart guy. So you can end up looking like a moron in front of 40 people even though you are not one. Its just that many people don't have teaching skills.

Finally, after you finish your phD you are not guaranteed a good paid job like daemonoid said. However situation could be different 3 years from now.

Like I said earlier, if I was in your position and I was getting a stipend to do a phD I would take that chance.
____________________
yzf 600r

[GhostRider]

[daemonoid]

[GhostRider]

[DrSnoosnoo]

Answer in short - Yes.

I'm in my 3rd year of my PhD now. Yes it can be lonely, yes it drives you mad but it's fun, and an academic over the corridor from me said the other day "you don't realise it at the time but it's the best time of your life".

I'm in a Chemistry based topic so obviously in the School of Chemistry and while I don't HAVE to teach as part of my contract, I choose to. I demonstrate in the undergrad lab sessions which can be really rewarding, I even go into schools now as a STEMNet ambassador to try and encourage kids to choose Chemistry.

The job market is pants, everyone knows that so at this point in time you're being offered a guaranteed income of £1200 every month for 3 years, that has to be attractive, and at the end of it, you should be the font of knowledge on your particular topic. I surprise myself with the stuff I've absorbed about electrically conductive polymers.

At the end you will be a highly qualified individual, at the end of a Master's you realise how many people have a Batchelor's degree so the Masters helps in the job hunt but once at PhD level you realise how many people have Masters. You should walk into a job at the end, there should be a company that needs your expertise when you finish, I know there's a few that could possibly want me.

TLDR - Yes do it, you could always knock it on the head and run away from academia forever if it's shit
____________________
I'm Sam; Northern, Ginger, Lover
Did have: '95 ZZR600 '83 CG125 '97 ZZR1100 '15 Hypermotard 821 SP Do Have: '10 ZX10R

[daemonoid]

[Rogerborg]

[daemonoid]

[fatpies]

Interesting thoughts.

I just remember Donnybrago getting his Phd and having trouble finding a decent job which put me off a bit.

Plus it is 3 years I'll never get back...

decisions decisions...
____________________
"It's easy to attack and destroy an act of creation. It's a lot more difficult to perform one"

[DrDonnyBrago]

INCOMING!!!!


If you want general "what is a PhD like" questions, pretty hard to say without knowing what you would be researching? Happy to answer based on a Science PhD though if you have Q's. Anything that requires personally identifiable info I'll do by PM.

General thoughts are long hours, a shite status somewhere between human being and student, high pressure and low wages. If you are not genuinely interested in the subject don't bother, all you'll have to show for it is a load of hand written books nobody will read.

BTW in my field, £14.5k tax free is a standard PhD stipend without taking on lecturing duties. Some get more (generous funding bodies), some get nothing (shite projects and/or box ticking for a rich foreigner), but £14k ish is otherwise normal.

There is also a lot of uncertainty, which is one of the worst bits of post-PhD work. Whilst writing my thesis, I also wrote myself a project to continue my PhD research. didn't know for a while whether it would get funded so whilst writing up I had no idea if I had a job coming. In the end it worked out quite well, the day I submitted my thesis I started my new job on an 18 month contract. That runs out soon, found a new job on a better salary and in a field I've been keen to break into within 2 weeks so there is work around if you have a decent CV/experience/skills/brain.



The "pay" is something I've been involved in recently, as I've been getting a new job and haggling myself up pay bands.

Most universities publish their pay scales and are generally the same across various Universities (bit more in London). This is a random, chose Bristol:

https://www.bris.ac.uk/hr/salaries/hr/salaries/grade-structure-aug13.pdf

Ignoring most columns, the pay spine on the left is standardised, a fresh PhD holder might go in at maybe level 22-26 (£24-27k), which is typically an assistant role that a non-PhD should do, but times are hard and PhD holders are applying anyway.

Or... skip a bit and go in at the next band, level 30+ (£30k+) and work from there. This is really where a PhD applicant should be, and would have been before the economy went tits up. There is a rough divide between research assistant and associate where most 30+ are asct and most 22-29 are asst, but it varies by uni.

To get into the 30+ levels, HR typically require that the role is demanding enough that it can only be done by someone with a PhD, so without one you can hit a ceiling. Naturally, there are exceptions. As a measure, the job that I wrote for myself was pegged at pay band 31, had to justify this in the grant application.

Then, through time, experience, promotion (to lecturer, senior Lecturer, reader, professor), jumping to better jobs etc you work gradually up the scales. Haggling for more money is essentially proving you are worthy of being higher up the scale than HR reckon you are. Clinical researchers have a different and higher scale, which is fair enough considering if they mess up someone dies.

[barrkel]

IMO it's supply and demand.

Not a lot of demand for archaeology PhDs.

There are two math PhDs in the startup I'm currently working for; the founder's lead him fairly nicely into financial software in the City, and he's on his second company now having sold his first. The other guy just slotted into the software industry, but not particularly higher or lower than experience after a batchelors would have. IMO entrepreneurialism mattered more. The time in graduate school helped with connections though.

I've worked with other PhDs in Silicon Valley, and they weren't particularly more rewarded than the average. It did mean they could get a job more easily in their specialism (compilers, in this case), but with careful selection of jobs, you can work towards it (I did).

The more technical your discipline, the more likely you can get a good job in that discipline in industry - assuming the industry is profitable.

On the other hand, if your target industry rewards focused value-creating talent, a PhD may be a waste of time.

PS: if you're looking to work in academia itself, you're probably onto a loser
____________________
Bikes: S1000R, SH350; Exes: Vity 125, PS125, YBR125, ER6f, VFR800, Brutale 920, CB600F, SH300x4
Best road ever ridden: www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2MhNxUEYtQ

[drbaig]

The idea that you will be earning a lot of money is completely false. I was also told a lot of false things during my undergraduate and postgraduate.

I graduate in 2012, still no work (i didn't get a shit degree either). I am not lazy and I am actually trying really hard. I have heard all different types of rejections by now. Some genuine, some absolutely absurd, some where I was overqualified. It is a cluster fuck, some don't even give you any feedback.

But you also have to realize that there are a lot of people out there looking for work who have more experience than you. So the position you will be applying for will have similarly if not more qualified people with equivalent if not more experience.

Drives me mad when I see people with two to three years field experience applying for trainee positions. But you cant blame those poor fuckers because they want the job just as bad as you.

Meh, tl;dr

Rant over
____________________
yzf 600r

[fatpies]