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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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 Posted: 13:52 - 21 Mar 2014  Post subject: Cutting beer and bingo duty |
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smegballs
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Posted: 13:58 - 21 Mar 2014  Post subject: Re: Cutting beer and bingo duty |
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This was already brough up in the budget thread. Any real reason why it needs a new one?
Sorry to be "that guy" |
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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| Posted: 14:03 - 21 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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Thought it might have been somewhere else. I've even posted a couple of times in that thread myself 
Well I didn't see it, and so some others may not have seen it either!
Hah, that's excuse enough for me. |
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| Benno |
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Benno
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| Posted: 14:06 - 21 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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How incredibly patronising 
Also looks like an attempt to appease - "Hey look, we gave YOU guys tax cuts, cut us some slack already while we give ourselves even MORE tax cuts"
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Lord Percy
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| Posted: 14:39 - 21 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | I'm just astounded by the absolute stupidity of the guy who thought that would even slightly work as a PR stunt.
Sometimes I try to kid myself that politicians are just normal people who want to do a good job. Then I see stories like this and realise they're idiots who see the population as:
a) Clients who just need sweet-talking into a good mood.
b) Sub-elite simpleton scum. |
You underestimate the stupidity of a lot of voters. As was said in other threads, going by adverts on TV, Bingo is booming in the UK.
Like was also said, if Millibland and Balls offered to cut duty on scratchcards, they'd probably win the next election hands down.
But of course, labour wouldn't promise freebies to the peasants in order to gain votes would they?
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| Posted: 15:17 - 21 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: | | mpd72 wrote: |
You underestimate the stupidity of a lot of voters. As was said in other threads, going by adverts on TV, Bingo is booming in the UK.
Like was also said, if Millibland and Balls offered to cut duty on scratchcards, they'd probably win the next election hands down. |
Do you like bingo? Do you know anyone who likes bingo? How many? Or scratch cards for that matter  |
I try not to mix with the "non working class" to be honest!
BTW, sales of National Lottery scratchcards have doubled in the last 8 years.
"Scratchcards are the most popular form of gambling in Britain after lottery draws, according to a three-yearly survey carried out on behalf of the Gambling Commission last year. The survey also noted that the appeal of scratchcards — by far the most popular of which are lottery cards — was strongest among younger punters, the unemployed, those in the lowest income households, and those in areas of the country with the highest levels of social deprivation."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/nov/18/national-lottery-scratchcard-sales-boom
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ThoughtContro...
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smegballs
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Benno
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| Posted: 09:37 - 22 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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| Polarbear wrote: | | mpd72 wrote: |
I try not to mix with the "non working class" to be honest!
BTW, sales of National Lottery scratchcards have doubled in the last 8 years.
"Scratchcards are the most popular form of gambling in Britain after lottery draws, according to a three-yearly survey carried out on behalf of the Gambling Commission last year. The survey also noted that the appeal of scratchcards — by far the most popular of which are lottery cards — was strongest among younger punters, the unemployed, those in the lowest income households, and those in areas of the country with the highest levels of social deprivation."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/nov/18/national-lottery-scratchcard-sales-boom |
That's hardly a surprise. When you are poor and it seems there is no way out, what are you going to spend a few quid on, a packet of tea bags or your potential way to riches.
All encouraged when you see newspaper articles of a mechanic winning 180 million. |
Or you could put the £20 a week you waste on scratchcards a week into a savings account. The £1000 a year would probably go a long way to gaining a vocational qualification which would get you out of the "poor" bracket.
I have seen people leave the Post Office on benefits day, go into the supermarket next door and blow their entire benefits on scratchcards, then sit frantically going through the pile of them in the shop.
I also had a young kitchen assistant pick up his wages, years ago when I was a chef. He went straight out to the bar in the golf club we worked at and put his entire wage packet into a fruit machine. It was cringe worthy watching him looking down the back of sofa's looking for that £1 coin which he needed to "win" his wages back.
When I finished at 4pm, I put a quid in and won £60 back before it stopped paying out. He got £60 back the next day with a stern talking to. He had a wife and young kid who would have gone hungry for the week.
"Poor" is something someone can escape from, stupidity isn't.
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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Posted: 10:32 - 22 Mar 2014  Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: |
Or you could put the £20 a week you waste on scratchcards a week into a savings account. The £1000 a year would probably go a long way to gaining a vocational qualification which would get you out of the "poor" bracket.
I have seen people leave the Post Office on benefits day, go into the supermarket next door and blow their entire benefits on scratchcards, then sit frantically going through the pile of them in the shop.
I also had a young kitchen assistant pick up his wages, years ago when I was a chef. He went straight out to the bar in the golf club we worked at and put his entire wage packet into a fruit machine. It was cringe worthy watching him looking down the back of sofa's looking for that £1 coin which he needed to "win" his wages back.
When I finished at 4pm, I put a quid in and won £60 back before it stopped paying out. He got £60 back the next day with a stern talking to. He had a wife and young kid who would have gone hungry for the week.
"Poor" is something someone can escape from, stupidity isn't. |
Here you have made sweeping statements about working class people, and wrong statements about how easy it is to escape from being working class.
Sweeping statements about working class are obvious so I won't go into that.
But about 'poor' being something someone can escape from. No it isn't. Do you think that getting your £1000 savings and doing a mechanics course will somehow make a mechanic position appear by magic? The idea that education gives you a path to becoming middle/upper class is utterly wrong and is one of Tony Blair's biggest mistakes (he's the one that wanted the whole country to be degree educated, isn't he?).
Ok some people might make it successfully, but not everyone can. Quite simply, not everyone can be super-rich; there will always be a balance of people who try and succeed, and people who try and fail, and I'm sure you must be aware that the factors deciding someone's success are often not at all related to capability or merit.
Also go to the extreme end of the scale and consider people in different countries in extreme poverty getting fucked over by general globalism, shitty politics, etc etc. All those bloody Africans living in their mud huts eating dysentery and cholera for breakfast just need to work harder and save up enough to break free from it all! Right?
I don't think it's always as easy to escape 'being poor' as you suggest. |
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| Posted: 11:15 - 22 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: |
I don't think it's always as easy to escape 'being poor' as you suggest. |
No, but also it's not the unescapable prison some try to make out.
We all have access to education in this country.
What is "poor" in the UK? I ask becuase even people who've never worked a day in their life (I'll use the example of the young couple with 2 kids across the road from me), have a 3 bed semi in a nice area, run a car (albeit uninsured and untaxed), have Sky TV, a big widescreen. What makes them "poor", they seem to be doing OK to me, yet are classed as "poor"?
There is a section of society, which liberals think only exists in the mythical "Daily Mail" world, where generations of the same family have made the career choice to sit on benefits and never work. These people are far from poor in the real sense of the term. In this situation, where the adults and grandparents never worked in their life, or spent very few years working before "retiring" on benefits, it would be hard for the ferrel offspring to break the mould and get a career when all they've seen is a life where everything is handed to you for free. In this situation, yes, it could be difficult to escape from the lower earnings end of society.
The UK living wage apparently for a family with 2 children, is over £2000 a month (£470 per week) AFTER tax, childcare and housing costs at the moment. What's that, before tax and housing costs, about £38,000 + a year? Clearly the definition of poor in the UK, is not being able to buy a new car every 3 years!
https://www.jrf.org.uk/topic/mis
According to that site "MOST people relying on basic out of work benefits do not reach this standard"....."Most"? hardly an inspiration to find a job is it?
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| Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy
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| Posted: 11:32 - 22 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: | | Lord Percy wrote: |
I don't think it's always as easy to escape 'being poor' as you suggest. |
No, but also it's not the unescapable prison some try to make out.
We all have access to education in this country.
What is "poor" in the UK? I ask becuase even people who've never worked a day in their life (I'll use the example of the young couple with 2 kids across the road from me), have a 3 bed semi in a nice area, run a car (albeit uninsured and untaxed), have Sky TV, a big widescreen. What makes them "poor", they seem to be doing OK to me, yet are classed as "poor"?
There is a section of society, which liberals think only exists in the mythical "Daily Mail" world, where generations of the same family have made the career choice to sit on benefits and never work. These people are far from poor in the real sense of the term. In this situation, where the adults and grandparents never worked in their life, or spent very few years working before "retiring" on benefits, it would be hard for the ferrel offspring to break the mould and get a career when all they've seen is a life where everything is handed to you for free. In this situation, yes, it could be difficult to escape from the lower earnings end of society.
The UK living wage apparently for a family with 2 children, is over £2000 a month (£470 per week) AFTER tax, childcare and housing costs at the moment. What's that, before tax and housing costs, about £38,000 + a year? Clearly the definition of poor in the UK, is not being able to buy a new car every 3 years!
https://www.jrf.org.uk/topic/mis
According to that site "MOST people relying on basic out of work benefits do not reach this standard"....."Most"? hardly an inspiration to find a job is it? |
I should clarify that when I say 'poor' I don't necessarily mean poverty etc. In the case of this country, it's just that some people are working class while others aren't, and it's more about the fact that it's very difficult for some to climb into a higher earning bracket.
And as I already said, 'access to education' is meaningless. All it gets is an educated populace, it doesn't get them all jobs.
(I could start arguing against the whole 'work to live' paradigm, but that's another topic altogether I think) |
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| Posted: 11:51 - 22 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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| Lord Percy wrote: |
I should clarify that when I say 'poor' I don't necessarily mean poverty etc. In the case of this country, it's just that some people are working class while others aren't, and it's more about the fact that it's very difficult for some to climb into a higher earning bracket.
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It's a shame that the "working class" are still seen as the lowest group in society, in a country where surely the "no interest in working class" should be the bottom of the pecking order!
You can't really label some people as working class when they have not and have no intention of ever working.
The "there's no jobs" excuse is used far too often by those with no real intention of finding one. With the recent crash, I know quite a few people who were made redundant and have had to start again on lower paid jobs, with part time hours. A few years on though and as far as I can see, they're all back on full time hours, many have moved on to better positions now.
There are those who want to get on in life and those who prefer to bumble along at tick over, without having to work. We have a benfits system which seems to fail the people who really need it, such as a single adult made redundant, yet allows generations of freeloaders to live in reasonable comfort without ever having to work.
I believe we now have 4 classes in this country, the "not intersted in working class", working class then middle and upper.
BTW, I see myself as working class, not middle class. Middle class to me is around about a 4 bed detached house, and about £80K a year household income.
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ThoughtContro...
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| Posted: 12:47 - 22 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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| mpd72 wrote: | BTW, I see myself as working class, not middle class. Middle class to me is around about a 4 bed detached house, and about £80K a year household income. |
No mate, hate to pop your bubble, but that just makes you lower middle class.
Class structure is hardly just 3 (or even 4) any more. Ask the marketers, with their A,B,C1, etc garbage, if that's not been even further refined.
I know plenty of "don't want to work"s, but that's because it works out better to game the system, and earn more, than go out and graft for minimum wage, nowadays on one of your flagship zero hour contracts, and lose free prescriptions, council tax benefit, housing benefit and everything else the state gives away for free. If they go out to work they lose out big time financially, and if they've any arrears in anything, "working" now puts you in fucked tier since you're regarded as being able to pay it back, even though you're financially worse off.
As far as your investing in a future garbage goes, there's plenty of kids who thought a degree was the ticket to middle class paradise. Sadly it's not, as there aren't enough real jobs to go round, so you might as well have pissed it all up the wall and done a waster degree like media studies than anything else, since they're all worth fuck all unless they're a 1st and you're lucky enough to get a place in your supposed dream career. All these kids will get is a huge amount of debt they can never pay.
I'm sure you think that cutting benefits to zero is the way to go, as will Cameron and the rest, but as you'll find out that will introduce a large scale of desperation to the underclass. That is when the fun starts.
It'll only get worse in this country, whether in the long or very short term. My advice is invest in weapons and security because you're going to need 'em, especially if you're just "working class" and live any distance from a low grade shit hole. The zombies will all be wearing track suits when the apocalypse of financial collapse comes, and they really won't give a fuck.
As Celente often comments, "When people lose everything, they lose it"
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| Posted: 16:58 - 22 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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| ThoughtControl wrote: |
I know plenty of "don't want to work"s, but that's because it works out better to game the system, and earn more, than go out and graft for minimum wage, nowadays on one of your flagship zero hour contracts, and lose free prescriptions, council tax benefit, housing benefit and everything else the state gives away for free. If they go out to work they lose out big time financially, and if they've any arrears in anything, "working" now puts you in fucked tier since you're regarded as being able to pay it back, even though you're financially worse off. |
It doesn't make it right though does it? Nobody should be able to chose not to work to be financially better off. Life shouldn't be that comfortable and work that low paid, that people choose to doss.
| ThoughtControl wrote: |
As far as your investing in a future garbage goes, there's plenty of kids who thought a degree was the ticket to middle class paradise. Sadly it's not, as there aren't enough real jobs to go round, so you might as well have pissed it all up the wall and done a waster degree like media studies than anything else, since they're all worth fuck all unless they're a 1st and you're lucky enough to get a place in your supposed dream career. All these kids will get is a huge amount of debt they can never pay. |
So these non minimum wage jobs then, I take it you managed to find one? I did too, so did all my mates. They're not that rare if you make yourself employable are they?
| ThoughtControl wrote: | I'm sure you think that cutting benefits to zero is the way to go, as will Cameron and the rest, but as you'll find out that will introduce a large scale of desperation to the underclass. That is when the fun starts.
It'll only get worse in this country, whether in the long or very short term. My advice is invest in weapons and security because you're going to need 'em, especially if you're just "working class" and live any distance from a low grade shit hole. The zombies will all be wearing track suits when the apocalypse of financial collapse comes, and they really won't give a fuck. |
So we need to pay the non working class more to keep them happy? Sod that. Benefits need lowering to certain long term dossers, like they do in some other European countries. Benefits start high, a lot higher than the UK, then gradually reduce. It would stop a lot of career dossers.
The goverment have created this problem by making life on benefits too easy for some (not all). It needs nipping in the bud now.
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| Posted: 20:08 - 22 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
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Back to the OP, this halving of Bingo taxes is a genuine move to help actual Bingo halls, who are closing at an alarming rate due to the rise of inline bingo.
Online gambling still attracts twice the tax, so as silly as this sounded, it's just trying to protect the jobs of the thousands of bingo hall workers, as online bingo is killing them.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 11 years, 343 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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