 |
|
 |
|
|
| Author |
Message |
| macc |
This post is not being displayed .
|
macc
L Plate Warrior
Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Karma :  
|
 Posted: 17:10 - 24 Mar 2014  Post subject: My CBT experience |
 |
|
Hi,
First post. Hello all. Did my CBT two weeks ago and figured I needed a forum to latch onto as I don't have any biker mates who can advise on things.
I'll describe my CBT as I was reading other people's before hand.
So I'm in my early 30s and my total pre-CBT experience equates 1 day on a scooter in a foreign land and flip flops (I survived but it scared the hell out of me). I'm looking at getting one for practical reasons as well as a bit of fun.
I don't have a bike yet and had juggled between thoughts of getting a scooter and motorbike. I've settled on a scooter ( ) as I saw a youtube video which made my mind up based on the reasons for wanting to buy two wheels. I went down to a local Honda dealer to chat about it and all the equipment I'd need as a newbie, as well as to see some bikes and scooters in the flesh.
Signed up for my CBT with the intention of dong it on a geared motorbike. I figured that even if bought a scooter the controlled environment of a CBT would be the best place to take on the challenge of clutch and gear, even if I never ended up using it.
Both during the booking and on the day the instructor said a lot of people struggle on the gears and that I might be better going for the scooter. I explained why I was going to try the geared motorbike and we agreed I could just switch to a scooter if I wasn't getting it. I didn't realise the scooter would be 50cc I thought they'd both be 125 and this was all the more reason for me to try the bike.
We went through the spiel at the beginning and got some useful tips and websites for buying gear etc. Went outside for the section on maintaining the bikes, which was quite interesting. I'm not mechanically minded at all but I appreciate there's an element of it which is going to come with the territory. A crib sheet to take away for future reference would've been nice.
Started on the bike after pushing it around a bit and I enjoyed the easy pace. First edging forward using the clutch, then doing a lap of the car park and testing breaks, then shifting up into 2nd etc. It all went pretty well.
I stalled it. A lot! My biggest concern was the bike shooting forward. Because I'd realised you could actually set the bike in motion without any throttle I was trying to roll forward before accelerating (I found the throttle a little bit jerky from the first bit of power in 1st gear). It was no big deal though and I just took my time to re-set myself if I stalled and carried on.
I thought I'd get caught off balance more, with my weight distributed incorrectly for a turn (this happened on my flip flop scoter day a bit) but on my CBT this didn't really happen. My balance and control at low speeds, using the clutch and foot brake was ok. I just did everything really slowly and didn't rush anything.
Next was the figure of eight, the slalom and the U turn. There was only one other guy training with me and he had some riding experience, but he was on a scooter. I think he was just going through the motions to get the certificate. Instructor wanted me to start on the figure of 8 as I presume it's the more difficult one when managing your speed with a geared bike. I did it fine first time. Probably not the most perfectly formed figure of eight but I did about 6 in a row before I first put my foot down. The slalom was easy and the U turn was easy in comparison to the figure of 8. I only put my foot down on the U turn once and it was when I stopped concentrating.
The next section was about indicating and road positions, with a T junction marked out in cones. Here it was checking your mirrors and the lifesaver and things. The instructor wasn't quite so clear on what we were supposed to do here but it was ok in the end. I didn't really feel the benefit of this exercise so much. I felt like it could've been a bit better, maybe with a bigger road network marked out in cones. I was still stalling the bike regularly though as there was a lot of stop-start.
After that it was out on the road. I was a bit nervous before I got on. I got a waft of the petrol from the engine as I had my helmet off and that made my nerves go a little. I used to race karts a bit at school and the smell of the engine before you sat in for the first race always brought a bit of nervous anticipation. This was similar.
Anyway we set off and it was raining heavily. I felt very safe with the instructors speeding up to shield us from drivers on occasion, where they saw the potential for aggressive vans pulling in front of us (which indeed they did). It felt quite cool though, riding down the road in a mini convoy. Bikers coming the opposite direction would rev their engines as they passed and everyone noticed us riding by. Even the instructor's mate rode past and joined us for a short period.
The ride itself was fine. I got split up at one point but it was no big deal. I concentrated on using the throttle more as I took off and as a result I only stalled once - stalling on a bike is not like stalling on a car, you just pull the clutch back it and press a button. There's no putting your handbrake on and things. It delays you for about a second but that's it. - I also found the gears were quite forgiving compared to a car. If you shifted and the clutch wasn't fully in (or not in at all in some cases) it just bumps into gear. Don't imagine it does the bike any good but it doesn't make that awful grinding noise a car does.
EDIT posted too early
The reduction in peripheral vision in the helmet was quite a big thing for me. It felt when I was on the road that I didn't have a great awareness of everything that was going on, simple because I couldn't see as much. I guess you get used to it.
I was a good day but the only thing is we certainly didn't do 2 hours on the road. In fact it felt as though it was more like 30 minutes. We both passed, which is the main thing I guess. We just assumed we had I think and the instructors just asked for our licence at the end when filling the paperwork in. Despite my hand being freezing afterwards I did feel a little short-changed by such a short ride in the end. We didn't do an emergency stop either. At all. I saw that as the bit I was most likely to fall off but I reckon they just forgot.
Need a scooter now. Unfortunately I'm close to buying a house and despite just passing the CBT I think I'm going to have to put it off for a few months. |
|
| Back to top |
  |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| Rogerborg |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Rogerborg
nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Karma :  
|
Posted: 17:50 - 24 Mar 2014  Post subject: |
|
|
Heh, sounds like me a few years back, down to the flip-flops.
Chiselling bastards, the 2 hour road ride is the only part of the CBT that has a minimum time. Now that you've got the certificate, you can rat them out bring them to justice via cbt@dsa.gsi.gov.uk . 
The helmet does take some getting used to. You'll read a 2,000 word essay soon on why you should consider an open face lid. I tried it, and it does make sense: better vision and a greater sense of vulnerability. And then I face planted, fortunately in a full face lid, and I'll be God damned if I wear open face again. You might consider a flip-front as a half way house, as you can flip it up selectively.
It's great that you enjoyed it, and I can't really talk down scooters as a commuter tool. My Burgman is objectively excellent and I'm a mug for selling it.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| pinkyfloyd |
This post is not being displayed .
|
pinkyfloyd
Super Spammer
Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Karma :
|
Posted: 18:06 - 24 Mar 2014  Post subject: Re: My CBT experience |
|
|
| macc wrote: |
Both during the booking and on the day the instructor said a lot of people struggle on the gears and that I might be better going for the scooter. I explained why I was going to try the geared motorbike and we agreed I could just switch to a scooter if I wasn't getting it. I didn't realise the scooter would be 50cc I thought they'd both be 125 and this was all the more reason for me to try the bike. |
We have 2 kinds of bike. Either a geared 125cc or a 50cc ped. Its not economically viable to own anymore than those 2 selections and I am not aware of any school that does so. At 16 years old you can ride a 50cc ped so we need them stocked. At 17 you can ride a geared 125.
Many people do struggle with gears and pulling away. If we have students that do struggle and we give them all the info. It is not that you do not know what you are doing, its just the putting the knowledge into practice. If the student struggles then we do offer to do the rest of the day on the ped. It is purely because there is so much info to take in some students can go into the mental block meltdown. Finishing the day on the ped and then spending a few minutes on a geared when they get back to the yard normally has the student getting it together.
| macc wrote: | We went through the spiel at the beginning and got some useful tips and websites for buying gear etc. Went outside for the section on maintaining the bikes, which was quite interesting. I'm not mechanically minded at all but I appreciate there's an element of it which is going to come with the territory. A crib sheet to take away for future reference would've been nice. |
All the info you need about basic maintenance can be found online or in your handbook you got with the bike.
| macc wrote: | Started on the bike after pushing it around a bit and I enjoyed the easy pace. First edging forward using the clutch, then doing a lap of the car park and testing breaks, then shifting up into 2nd etc. It all went pretty well.
I stalled it. A lot! My biggest concern was the bike shooting forward. Because I'd realised you could actually set the bike in motion without any throttle I was trying to roll forward before accelerating (I found the throttle a little bit jerky from the first bit of power in 1st gear). It was no big deal though and I just took my time to re-set myself if I stalled and carried on. |
The engine needs something to work with and tick over revs is not enough for most bikes, some new ones have engine management etc. If you do not give your machine any throttle to work with you will jerk forward and stall. I had a student yesterday who was doing exactly the same thing, or getting the bike onto the biting point then dumping the clutch with no revs. Then the continued stalling was a repeat from over thinking. It takes practice.
| macc wrote: | I thought I'd get caught off balance more, with my weight distributed incorrectly for a turn (this happened on my flip flop scoter day a bit) but on my CBT this didn't really happen. My balance and control at low speeds, using the clutch and foot brake was ok. I just did everything really slowly and didn't rush anything. |
Oddly enough the slow control is the hardest part of riding. We tell the students that slow control mastery is 90% of riding sorted. Any idiot can ride fast it takes practice to ride slowly and controlled. In the yard, again, its something that takes practice and we make you actively think about what you are doing which adds pressure. Out on the road you will normally find its natural and you wont think about it.
| macc wrote: | Next was the figure of eight, the slalom and the U turn. There was only one other guy training with me and he had some riding experience, but he was on a scooter. I think he was just going through the motions to get the certificate. Instructor wanted me to start on the figure of 8 as I presume it's the more difficult one when managing your speed with a geared bike. I did it fine first time. Probably not the most perfectly formed figure of eight but I did about 6 in a row before I first put my foot down. The slalom was easy and the U turn was easy in comparison to the figure of 8. I only put my foot down on the U turn once and it was when I stopped concentrating. |
We get you doing a figure of 8 so we know you can turn both left and right and it is good practice for slow control. It gets you turning your head, gets you used to the back brake/clutch control and keeping it slow.
| macc wrote: | The next section was about indicating and road positions, with a T junction marked out in cones. Here it was checking your mirrors and the lifesaver and things. The instructor wasn't quite so clear on what we were supposed to do here but it was ok in the end. I didn't really feel the benefit of this exercise so much. I felt like it could've been a bit better, maybe with a bigger road network marked out in cones. I was still stalling the bike regularly though as there was a lot of stop-start. |
Under assessment for my warrant card my boss said the practice for the junctions was the bit I done best so I'll go through the motions quickly for you. It wont be as indepth as I teach in the yard but you will get the idea.
While riding along the road you want to be in the dominant position, that means in the middle of your lane. From the kerb (or cycle lane) to the lines on your right, that is your bit of road. Position yourself so no one can take it away from you.
Now, at the end of most roads you find junctions, there are a few things you can do to prepare yourself and let others know your intentions. First is check your mirrors. Give them a good look, move your head, that lets the car behind you know you are planning something. Its the old "wtf is he up to doing that with his head?". Second step is indicator, "ahh, thats what the nodding was, hes checking his mirror." So we're now indicating and we have to get our positioning sorted out, to do that we need to do a shoulder check and gently guide our bikes over to the side of our lane. If we are turning right you want to do a right shoulder check. Left shoulder for left then guide your bike over gently, position yourself as far as safe to the left side of the lane or the right. It keeps you in the dominant position.
In the yard there is not much space to work with and on the road it is easier.
| macc wrote: | After that it was out on the road. I was a bit nervous before I got on. I got a waft of the petrol from the engine as I had my helmet off and that made my nerves go a little. I used to race karts a bit at school and the smell of the engine before you sat in for the first race always brought a bit of nervous anticipation. This was similar.
Anyway we set off and it was raining heavily. I felt very safe with the instructors speeding up to shield us from drivers on occasion, where they saw the potential for aggressive vans pulling in front of us (which indeed they did). It felt quite cool though, riding down the road in a mini convoy. Bikers coming the opposite direction would rev their engines as they passed and everyone noticed us riding by. Even the instructor's mate rode past and joined us for a short period. |
The road ride is the hardest part of the day for instructors. We have to watch you, relay directions, read the roads and ride for ourselves too. Our job is to make sure you are safe out there from yourself and from the other road users AND make sure you ride safely for yourself and other road users.
| macc wrote: | The ride itself was fine. I got split up at one point but it was no big deal. I concentrated on using the throttle more as I took off and as a result I only stalled once - stalling on a bike is not like stalling on a car, you just pull the clutch back it and press a button. There's no putting your handbrake on and things. It delays you for about a second but that's it. - I also found the gears were quite forgiving compared to a car. If you shifted and the clutch wasn't fully in (or not in at all in some cases) it just bumps into gear. Don't imagine it does the bike any good but it doesn't make that awful grinding noise a car does. |
After second gear many people do not use the clutch at all going up through the gears. I always do but it does not hurt the engine.
| macc wrote: |
EDIT posted too early
The reduction in peripheral vision in the helmet was quite a big thing for me. It felt when I was on the road that I didn't have a great awareness of everything that was going on, simple because I couldn't see as much. I guess you get used to it. |
Thats why we do those things we call livesavers. Your head is capable of moving around, do this and you dont have to worry about peripheral vision.
| macc wrote: | I was a good day but the only thing is we certainly didn't do 2 hours on the road. In fact it felt as though it was more like 30 minutes. We both passed, which is the main thing I guess. We just assumed we had I think and the instructors just asked for our licence at the end when filling the paperwork in. Despite my hand being freezing afterwards I did feel a little short-changed by such a short ride in the end. We didn't do an emergency stop either. At all. I saw that as the bit I was most likely to fall off but I reckon they just forgot.
Need a scooter now. Unfortunately I'm close to buying a house and despite just passing the CBT I think I'm going to have to put it off for a few months. |
If you were given the DL196 form then you "passed." Techincally its not a pass or fail, its an ongoing training day and you either reach the standard required and get the certificate or you do not and dont.
The road ride should be a minimum of 2 hours. Thats based on 2 students so instructors can, and some do, give an hour to each student. You had someone with you who clearly did not need the full hour. Chances are your instructor was happy with what he saw from you on the road. Not saying its right but it does happen. You know within the first 20 minutes whether you are going to get it together or need more time. Guy I had out yesterday was great on the road, stalled a few times but after 15 minutes he had riding sorted well enough that I could have brought him back home right away. I enjoy being out and about with the students so we rode round for well over an hour and only got back to the yard early because time was getting on and I had pretty much stopped giving instructions. When I get bored I know the guy in front is doing fine.
What I do find worrying is the fact you were not taught half of what we teach and no emergency stop is shocking. There was no mention at all of actually teaching you about braking, how to brake safely and practice. Our yard work is in the following order:
1. Pulling away and riding around in 1st gear only. This gets you used to riding the bike and clutch control.
2. Large figure of 8's using the whole yard area. Gets you used to left and right turns.
3. Slow control training and then around cones in a slalom.
4. U turn. We start hammering in the importance of obs and lifesavers here.
5. Braking and emergency braking.
6. Gears. We do all of the above in 1st gear and after braking we teach you gears, second, third etc. We work on the theory that we want you to be able to stop safely before we teach you to go faster.
7. Finally, is the junction work, both left and right junctions, both open and closed junctions. Starts with a walk through, then a demo by the instructor and then student practice.
Only after we are happy they get the Element D talk before going on road. Seems you were short changed in the CBT day yard work.
____________________
illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said. |
|
| Back to top |
 |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Tamsin |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Tamsin
World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 Mar 2014
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| recman |
This post is not being displayed .
|
recman
World Chat Champion
Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Karma : 
|
| Posted: 00:38 - 25 Mar 2014 Post subject: |
|
|
Mine felt like we'd been out for a week (proper shitty weather)!
It turned out that we weren't really out on a CBT at all, we were just riding round visiting dealers, looking for a 125 for me.  |
|
| Back to top |
 |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| macc |
This post is not being displayed .
|
macc
L Plate Warrior
Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Karma :
|
| Posted: 10:12 - 25 Mar 2014 Post subject: Re: My CBT experience |
|
|
| pinkyfloyd wrote: |
We have 2 kinds of bike. Either a geared 125cc or a 50cc ped. Its not economically viable to own anymore than those 2 selections and I am not aware of any school that does so. At 16 years old you can ride a 50cc ped so we need them stocked. At 17 you can ride a geared 125.
Many people do struggle with gears and pulling away. If we have students that do struggle and we give them all the info. It is not that you do not know what you are doing, its just the putting the knowledge into practice. If the student struggles then we do offer to do the rest of the day on the ped. It is purely because there is so much info to take in some students can go into the mental block meltdown. Finishing the day on the ped and then spending a few minutes on a geared when they get back to the yard normally has the student getting it together.
|
Makes perfect sense about the 50/125cc. The guy on the moped was in front and I thought at first he was just going really slow but by the end I figured it was just the bike. I can see how mopeds can be dangerous by holding up traffic.
| pinkyfloyd wrote: | | macc wrote: | We went through the spiel at the beginning and got some useful tips and websites for buying gear etc. Went outside for the section on maintaining the bikes, which was quite interesting. I'm not mechanically minded at all but I appreciate there's an element of it which is going to come with the territory. A crib sheet to take away for future reference would've been nice. |
All the info you need about basic maintenance can be found online or in your handbook you got with the bike. |
True but for any instructors reading, a one-side piece of A4 with a checklist on and some indication of frequency of maintenance would be a nice touch. A few simple hand-drawn illustrations to assist, possibly. Wouldn't mater if they're a bit dodgy.
Everything is on the internet. You have to look for it though and have confidence that the piece of information you've found covers the subject matter adequately.
| pinkyfloyd wrote: | | macc wrote: | ..
I stalled it. A lot! My biggest concern was the bike shooting forward. Because I'd realised you could actually set the bike in motion without any throttle I was trying to roll forward before accelerating (I found the throttle a little bit jerky from the first bit of power in 1st gear). It was no big deal though and I just took my time to re-set myself if I stalled and carried on. |
The engine needs something to work with and tick over revs is not enough for most bikes, some new ones have engine management etc. If you do not give your machine any throttle to work with you will jerk forward and stall. I had a student yesterday who was doing exactly the same thing, or getting the bike onto the biting point then dumping the clutch with no revs. Then the continued stalling was a repeat from over thinking. It takes practice.
|
Interesting, that. So it was just the bike that was letting me do it (Honda CBF125). I wouldn't have expected that you could but that saves me trying it on an older bike and making an arse of myself. Thanks.
| pinkyfloyd wrote: | | macc wrote: | I thought I'd get caught off balance more, with my weight distributed incorrectly for a turn (this happened on my flip flop scoter day a bit) but on my CBT this didn't really happen. My balance and control at low speeds, using the clutch and foot brake was ok. I just did everything really slowly and didn't rush anything. |
Oddly enough the slow control is the hardest part of riding. We tell the students that slow control mastery is 90% of riding sorted. Any idiot can ride fast it takes practice to ride slowly and controlled. In the yard, again, its something that takes practice and we make you actively think about what you are doing which adds pressure. Out on the road you will normally find its natural and you wont think about it.
|
Taking my hand off the front brake removed any temptation to use it during the low speed manoeuvres in the car park. I also found that if I got my self into a dexterous jumble I just put the clutch in and coasted for a second while I composed myself and either applied the footbrake if I my speed was creeping up or released the throttle and started again with finding the biting point (while still moving) if my revs had been getting too high.
Keeping my feet off the floor I found quite easy at low speed so long as I kept my head up. Keeping your head up when managing the clutch/throttle and foot brake was a bit like touching the tip of your nose with your finger without looking at your hand. You have to resist the temptation to look down but actually doing it without looking is only marginally more difficult.
| pinkyfloyd wrote: | | macc wrote: | The next section was about indicating and road positions, with a T junction marked out in cones. Here it was checking your mirrors and the lifesaver and things. The instructor wasn't quite so clear on what we were supposed to do here but it was ok in the end. I didn't really feel the benefit of this exercise so much. I felt like it could've been a bit better, maybe with a bigger road network marked out in cones. I was still stalling the bike regularly though as there was a lot of stop-start. |
Under assessment for my warrant card my boss said the practice for the junctions was the bit I done best so I'll go through the motions quickly for you. It wont be as indepth as I teach in the yard but you will get the idea.
While riding along the road you want to be in the dominant position, that means in the middle of your lane. From the kerb (or cycle lane) to the lines on your right, that is your bit of road. Position yourself so no one can take it away from you.
Now, at the end of most roads you find junctions, there are a few things you can do to prepare yourself and let others know your intentions. First is check your mirrors. Give them a good look, move your head, that lets the car behind you know you are planning something. Its the old "wtf is he up to doing that with his head?". Second step is indicator, "ahh, thats what the nodding was, hes checking his mirror." So we're now indicating and we have to get our positioning sorted out, to do that we need to do a shoulder check and gently guide our bikes over to the side of our lane. If we are turning right you want to do a right shoulder check. Left shoulder for left then guide your bike over gently, position yourself as far as safe to the left side of the lane or the right. It keeps you in the dominant position.
In the yard there is not much space to work with and on the road it is easier.
|
That's much clearer thanks. Again, for any other instructors, a take away diagram of road positions at junctions would be a handy thing to give out. Perhaps on the back of that maintenance check list.
| pinkyfloyd wrote: | | macc wrote: | I was a good day but the only thing is we certainly didn't do 2 hours on the road. In fact it felt as though it was more like 30 minutes. We both passed, which is the main thing I guess. We just assumed we had I think and the instructors just asked for our licence at the end when filling the paperwork in. Despite my hand being freezing afterwards I did feel a little short-changed by such a short ride in the end. We didn't do an emergency stop either. At all. I saw that as the bit I was most likely to fall off but I reckon they just forgot.
Need a scooter now. Unfortunately I'm close to buying a house and despite just passing the CBT I think I'm going to have to put it off for a few months. |
If you were given the DL196 form then you "passed." Techincally its not a pass or fail, its an ongoing training day and you either reach the standard required and get the certificate or you do not and dont. |
Yeah they gave us a nice looking certificate at the end.
| pinkyfloyd wrote: | The road ride should be a minimum of 2 hours. Thats based on 2 students so instructors can, and some do, give an hour to each student. You had someone with you who clearly did not need the full hour. Chances are your instructor was happy with what he saw from you on the road. Not saying its right but it does happen. You know within the first 20 minutes whether you are going to get it together or need more time. Guy I had out yesterday was great on the road, stalled a few times but after 15 minutes he had riding sorted well enough that I could have brought him back home right away. I enjoy being out and about with the students so we rode round for well over an hour and only got back to the yard early because time was getting on and I had pretty much stopped giving instructions. When I get bored I know the guy in front is doing fine.
What I do find worrying is the fact you were not taught half of what we teach and no emergency stop is shocking. There was no mention at all of actually teaching you about braking, how to brake safely and practice. Our yard work is in the following order:
1. Pulling away and riding around in 1st gear only. This gets you used to riding the bike and clutch control.
2. Large figure of 8's using the whole yard area. Gets you used to left and right turns.
3. Slow control training and then around cones in a slalom.
4. U turn. We start hammering in the importance of obs and lifesavers here.
5. Braking and emergency braking.
6. Gears. We do all of the above in 1st gear and after braking we teach you gears, second, third etc. We work on the theory that we want you to be able to stop safely before we teach you to go faster.
7. Finally, is the junction work, both left and right junctions, both open and closed junctions. Starts with a walk through, then a demo by the instructor and then student practice.
Only after we are happy they get the Element D talk before going on road. Seems you were short changed in the CBT day yard work. |
We did do exercises on the brake in the car park. It was just the emergency stop they didn't do. Prior to doing the CBT I'd already noted to myself that a good habbit to get into would be to do a practice emergency stop at the beginning of any long ride.
My main reason for being a bit disappointed about the length of the ride (I wasn't at the time. It was a few hours after I finished that it occurred to me it was short) was because I won't be able to get a scooter for a few months I fancied racking up a bit more road time.
Right now I'd love to be able to fill the gap by hiring one for the day, or even a weekend somewhere. As mentioned in another threads it doesn't seem easy to do. There seems to be rentals around London, Essex and the South West but I'm in the North so getting a train down there for a couple of nights in a B&B and a couple of days on some rural rides sounds tempting but not really worth the money. Especially for most of those rentals I'd need my own gear anyway (which is eminently more sensible).
Thanks, PinkFloyd, for your thorough response. I expect others will find it useful too. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 11 years, 320 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
 |
|
|
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.13 Sec - Server Load: 0.68 - MySQL Queries: 14 - Page Size: 82.35 Kb
|
Help & FAQs
Search BCF
Members
Groups
Events Calendar
rating
rating