Bike vs Car around Cadwell (THE RESULTS ARE IN)

[T0MMY]

People often talk about which is quicker around a track...the latest superbike or the latest supercar.

I think what people really want to know though is what is quicker between a knackered 14 year old ZX6R and a knackered 20 year old MX5

I intend to answer that very question tomorrow as that will be the first time I do a car trackday around a track that I have previously done on my bike.

The ZX6R is totally standard but has proper track tyres. The MX5 is also standard (128bhp ) but has Toyo T1Rs which are good on the road but hopeless on track. The bike handles fairly badly but the car is worse as it's way too soft.

I expect the car to be a fair bit slower just due to the massive difference in acceleration but I might time the amount the bike makes up on the straights and subtract that to get a comparison of the speed through the twisty bits separately.

So on the ZX6R I lap Cadwell in 1.44...any bets on what the car will do? And will it beat the bike if I ignore the long straights?
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ZX6R + CBR600RR

[G]

1.44 is a pretty respectable time - is that including the chicane?

Cars don't run the chicane I believe, so you'll have to take that out too.

Bikes have the advantage in corners that they can straighten them out a little more thanks to being narrower, though cars can make use of the grass and bankings more, perhaps.
A lot of people are 'braver' in a car, though not me as I started off and bikes and have a fair bit more experience in them.

[sidewinder]

Are you going to film it? should a good watch
i recon 2:17 for the mx5
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"Nitrous is like a cheap hooker, you want to hit it but are scared of the consequences

[stevo as b4]

Excellent idea for a real world test, where people are not going on stats and specs for brand new expensive machinery and with everything optimised to an Anal degree.

Id say the car will wan't good tyres and brakes to achieve it's fullest potential, but the MX5 is a delightfully balanced sportscar that you can thrash hard and use every bit of it's performance potential all of the time.

[T0MMY]

[T0MMY]

[stevo as b4]

If you see any understeery fwd car's that seem to grip well while your there, then please let me know what boots they are using. I'm going to get new tyres for my car when the wheels have been coated, and I was thinking of something like Yokohama Parada's but don't really have a clue what a good sticky summer road biased but track usable tyre would be?

I guess car weight and power and the suspension design and set up would all play a part, but I just need some new tyres and can't be bothered to do lots of re-search I suppose.

I think you'd have such a blast in the MX5 with really sticky track day rubber on though, and I bet it would bang in some pretty tidy times too!

[G]

Wouldn't it be worth having some spare wheels with part-worn track tyres for trackdays?

I've got a spare set of wheels for my beemer which made drift days a lot less hassle.

(Presuming it's a FWD with some space - going to need a rack on the mx5 probably.)

[HJM]

Mx5 will do it in 2:09.

This is no more than a absolute fucking guess.

Have a nice enjoyable day tomorrow .
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"90% of all statistics are made up"

CBT-18/04/2013

[stevo as b4]

Your right G, but I don't have any spare wheels as yet, and have never really belted one of my own car's around a track before. Would I kill a set of newish tyres in one trackday?

car is fwd, and about 1150-1160kg, with I'm guessing 260-270bhp.

[G]

I've not done any car trackdays, but from what I've seen they are a lot worse than bikes for giving abuse to all components and road tyres can overheat and shred a lot worse than bikes.

With the stats you list, it does sound like the front wheels are likely to be taking a lot; especially if you've got decent suspension allowing you to corner hard and get the power down, etc.

Could always go for a set of steel wheels if you can't find cheap alloys - along with some part worn track tyres I reckon it'd save you a fair bit.

(Again, not an expert - just read up on this a bit in the past.)

[T0MMY]

[T0MMY]

[sidewinder]

[T0MMY]

[T0MMY]

Damn...bit of a fiasco on the camera front Most of the videos were corrupted so I couldn't time all my laps but from the footage I do have the humble little MX5 managed... 1.56 I'm not sure if that counts as a win for the car or for the bike...it's a lot closer than I thought it'd be, especially given how bad the tyres were.

Annoyingly the best highlight of the day didn't save properly so I don't get to relive the scariest moment I've ever had on road or track in either 2 or 4 wheel format. Genuinely thought I was going to die, and I do mean that literally. Something I've never felt, even with near misses on the bike.

Anyway, here's a session from early in the day that did record properly...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAebXRxLP70&list=UUNohROcuyAD85CXJDQVaJ9g&index=1

EDIT: And for comparison...a few laps on my ZX6R (don't watch the first 4 minutes as I'm just warming up my tyres).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Cw_Mg25MU

If I was cleverer I'd put them both in a single split screen video
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ZX6R + CBR600RR

[stevo as b4]

Excellent post and a great result too. That little Mazda looked quite fast and was really flat stable and almost like it was on rails.

With some proper track tyres what do you reckon you'd be down to then? I would think an easy 3-4sec faster a lap at least?

Thr bike vid was really cool too, a shame you had a fair few slower riders to pass on the first few laps, but it looked quick at the end! I think the car laps looked really quick even so, but i guess having the cam mounted alot lower on the car makes it look faster as well?

Nice result anyway, and there's probably no more than 8-10sec difference in times between car and bike on that circuit if both were set up as you want them and with sticky rubber.

Oh and i want an MX5 now!

[G]

[T0MMY]

[MarJay]

[T0MMY]

[Walloper]

I can't open the clips here but I always imagine a car will gub a bike in corers as it is more stable so can be hammered into corners where as a bike has to be eased off tons or it will skyte acros the track. The outside tyre on the car can grip as the inside tyrs lift off.

When a bike's inside tyres lift off it's high-side time next.

Good exercise though.

I'm awarding you 3 karmas for this thread.
I was going to give four karmas but can't open the clips
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W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair

[T0MMY]

[T0MMY]

One more clip from the day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11sXfbGIE2E

MX5s are usually pretty docile but it tried to bite me there
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ZX6R + CBR600RR

[-LG-]

Looks great fun! Have you done many track days before? Something I want to do one day.

Seeing this has made me want to get an MX5! Insurance is only £400ish! What are they like day to day? I'm a bit worried that I won't fit in it, 6ft 4 .
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Snow rider wrote: I'm far to annoying to be near for long periods of time