Poor starting issues (GSF600 Bandit)

[Firecat]

Hi all

A quick aside before I launch into my woes, I just tried to register on here after a quick scan to see how helpful and active the board was and it said my username was in use. Ok, it's hardly unique (the Firecat is a cool picture after all) but I thought it odd, so tried logging in instead... turns out I registered a while back And people were helpful, so that bodes well!

Anyway, my issue (btw, if you don't feel like reading my wall of text (though I tried to keep it reasonably brief) I've done a summary at the end):
My bike (GSF 600 Bandit W Reg) was in the garage for December till late Feb. I got her out, put in my trickle charged battery and, with trepidation pressed the starter. I got the expected whirs and after a few seconds let go, counted to 30, pressed. On the 3rd press she sputtered into life and with a bit of managing I kept her from stalling again till she was running more happily. Pleasantly surprised I took her out and all was well, for a month or so.

Now suddenly she isn't a happy starter. She does always start (except once when I gave up as my alternate transport was about to leave) but she takes varying amounts of time. She used to start within maybe 2 seconds, ok so she sometimes stalled almost straight away (W reg and all), but she would then start again easily and stay started. Now she usually takes long enough that I have to release the button so I don't burn out the starter motor (she had a bout of being a poor starter last year and I held the button down enough the starter motor looked like it had been on fire and had to be replaced, so now always very cautious).

The odd thing is, I had my service and MOT last weekend and mentioned she was a poor starter, but the garage said they could see nothing wrong (and of course she started fine for them as she had only been 'off' for a few hours, rather than overnight/all day).

So in summary:
- Has started 'fine' for a month
- Now needs at least 2 five second bursts of starting before she will actually do anything but whir 90% of the time, and often up to 5 bursts
- No noticeable pattern, other than wet/misty = longer and oddly giving her a day off seems to help very slightly, but I think random
- New starter motor in last 12m (and garaged for 3 of those)
- Once started runs fine, doesn't stall once running and will start instantly if you stop and start straight away
- Garage says nothing wrong(!) and suggested I...
- ... start the bike by opening the choke fully then pressing the starter without touching the throttle, so that's what I have done these last few times (then revved once she was going)

Obviously my plan is to send her back to the garage (they are decent people I've gone to for 15 years(!), so they wouldn't have waved the bike out to make space for a better earner, so they will have looked at it I have no doubt), but any suggestions as to how I can sort this myself as getting to the garage will be awkward for a while? I intend to get the battery out and charged tonight, though why that would be needed I don't know after a month (ok so I can make some guesses, old battery not holding charge, engine not creating the power to run the lights etc and so depleting the battery), does that sound like it could be the cause from what I say above? If I have to charge my battery every month (or, you know, buy a new one) till the weather warms I can live with that.

Given she's had a (basic) service and MOT I hope I can rule out anything spark plug/filter etc... related. Oh, and FTR the MOT was an almost clean pass, and the fails weren't related (and were fixed anyway).

Any suggestions (and apologies for the lengthy post, didn't want to miss any detail)? I'm parked on a gentle hill just in case

[Vincent]

Have you checked that the plugs were actually replaced at the service.........and with the correct type?
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Space Is Deep

[Firecat]

[P.]

Just pull the plugs out, give them a clean, few drops of fuel down the bores and pop plugs back in.

Iain's bandit was a slag to start, clean the plugs, full choke, fired up like a champ.

[mudcow007]

mine is also a slag....

full choke, no throttle, let it warm up, turn choke off etc..

you can get the plugs out without taking the tank off easy peasy i use 17mm deep socket on a uj socket

[Firecat]

[mudcow007]

i find if i'm only running my bike for a few mins on choke the plugs will become black (an fouled) as a witches hat

take plugs out, clean them an are normally good to go again

pull the caps off the top of the plugs, put a 17mm socket onto the plug, unscrew, use the sparkplug cap on the plug to get the sparkie out, swap/ clean refit

bobs yours aunty

[Firecat]

[P.]

I tend to start on choke, ride off after putting gloves on and knock it off gently over a mile or 2.

[Firecat]

[Firecat]

Hi again

I've done all I can for the moment and would appreciate a little guidance.

Took a plug out, oddly the 17mm socket is too big, I wonder if we have different plugs (my Haynes lists 3 options). Regardless I can't put the plug back now, I get it so far and then the socket jumps, and if I try and put the cable back it won't go down far enough. No real problem, going back to Halfords to exchange it, 16mm I suspect.

That said, I'm worried about over tightening. Haynes says to do it by hand till it is tight, then wrench for a 1/4 turn more. It also suggests using a length of hose, couldn't quite get my head round that too well so I suspect I'm missing a trick with the hose (anyone want to elaborate? ). Problem is, I can't get my fingers in enough to do it by hand at all, I can reach but only just, so I can't get the purchase to turn it anywhere near enough.

Any suggestions as to how to do it by wrench? How much effort is too much? Can't afford (or borrow) a torque wrench, I intended to basically tighten it a little, try and put the cap on, if it fits I'm done, if it won't sit flush another turn/half turn etc... Can't see how that can't work, I'm doing as little as I can.

I get why you suggested I use the cable to get the plug out now

[Kickstart]

Hi

Can't remember the plug size on a 600 Bandit, but with the plug out you should be able to compare it to the socket (or just measure the size of the plug across the flats of the hex part).

As to choke, I would knock it off as soon as you possibly can. On my 1200 Bandit when it was standard the engine would die if I left the choke on at the first junction I needed to stop at (200~300 yards).

All the best

Keith
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[Vincent]

Yup. they're 16mm - CR9EK
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[mudcow007]

ahh sorry, 16mm was what i meant....whats 1mm between friends

[Firecat]

[Firecat]

Last update (unless I've done something seriously wrong).

Took out, cleaned and gapped all 4 plugs, all great except putting the last one in which was incredibly hard (hit resistance way earlier than expected). Ended up with the cap about 15mm higher than the others, not good.

Long story short, neighbour came out and confirmed it wasn't me, then got his mechanic dad to have a look. We got the plug in so the cap is only a mm or so up, I've pushed it down all I can, the gap between cover and bike is probably only now in my head, but I'm going to put some electrical tape on it to minimise the chance of rain getting in.

I suspect I have buggered the plug, but meh, I'll just have to leave it in until at least the next garage visit. The old plug was in good nick, so it should last.

Bike started, ran, mr mechanic said he couldn't hear any unexpected noises, so hopefully that ends the saga!