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dydey90
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 03 Apr 2014    Post subject: Cigarette packaging Reply with quote

So, the gubberment say it's a good idea to have plain packaging on cigarettes because apparently it's the bright colours everybody is attracted to. This is despite Australia trialling this and show a negligible decrease in smokers.

I'd like to find out who manufactures these and buy a few thousand shares in their company.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 03 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the/any government were serious about tackling smoking, they should do two things.

1) Mandatory proof of age ID to buy them. No ID, no fags.

2) Rolling annual minimum age increase to buy fags.

So anyone who can legally smoke will always be able to buy fags.

Anyone who isn't legally allowed to buy them, never will be.

It'll take some time but I can't see how anyone could have a legitimate complaint about the above. Yes there would be black market fags and there would be selling-on but it's going to start getting really fucking tedious, expensive (black market is currently driven by price, not availability. Restrict availability, price will go up.) and hard work to maintain a nicotine habit if you're below the legal buying age.

Give it 20 years. Smoking will be something "old guys" do (to a 14/15 year old, a 40 year old is nearly dead.). It would be like driving the same car as your Dad.
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krarkol
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 03 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's a good idea tbh Stinkwheel.

If you are currently at the minimum age to legally buy and smoke cigs you will always be that minimum age even when you are 60 Laughing
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 03 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just heard on this on the news.

"War against smoking"

So lets ban e-cigs, cos that will stop people smoking right?
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Az
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PostPosted: 18:28 - 03 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

A plain or white packaging is not going to stop from me smoking, it's just going to make it more of an inconvenience when pointing out what cigarettes or backy I want because the non-english speaking man behind the counter in the local shop near college does't understand what Amber Leaf is or what it looks like.
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 03 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
It would be like driving the same car as your Dad.


But berlingo's are really practical cars.... Embarassed
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Irn-Bru
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 03 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

No ID no sale? That would be hilarious for old people... but seriously it would slow the whole sales process down as no doubt people wouldn't have it ready.

I am not anti-smoking, as the Government loses tax from one source it'll have to move on to another. Probably a fat tax.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 18:57 - 03 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd actually quite like to see some figures on the amount of tax received from tobacco over the last 20 years. It's a big earner and less people are smoking...
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 19:13 - 03 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
I'd actually quite like to see some figures on the amount of tax received from tobacco over the last 20 years. It's a big earner and less people are smoking...


https://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-research/facts-figures/tax-revenue-from-tobacco/

NOTE! It is from the TMA ~ tobacco manufacturers association, the TMA estimate the VAT, but get the excise duty from HMRC.

TMA say costs the NHS 1.7bn or there abouts.

Indy says 5.7bn+

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/smoking-costs-nhs-pound5bn-a-year-1700509.html

As with many things it depends on how you count it, Phillip Morris for example wrote a report for the CCP (China government) about why they shouldn't ban smoking. Said something along the lines that smoking generated massive amounts of tax for the CCP, and there were also massive cost savings as people died earlier they wouldn't collect their pensions. Pension age in China is lower at 50.

We only do a simple tax in vs NHS cost out, rather than early deaths = no pensions savings, but seeing as pensions will be abolished by 2020, it is probably not going to matter either way.
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dydey90
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 04 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karma Top figures!

It's interesting how prices have increased roughly 480%, yet the income has only doubled. Does that mean there are half as many people smoking now?
Based on the 1990 income, if the same amount of tobacco had been sold last year, there would have been an additional £20 billion in tax. I bet that would have helped out the NHS.
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tbourner
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 04 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
If the/any government were serious about tackling smoking, they should do two things.

1) Mandatory proof of age ID to buy them. No ID, no fags.

2) Rolling annual minimum age increase to buy fags.


3) Apply the same rules to any quantity being brought into the country.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 16:02 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really against this to be honest - although I think the effect will be negligable.

Most 'new smokers' tend to pick based on whats cheapest/what name they recognise most anyway so its fairly redundant I think - no one goes into a shop and thinks 'i'll take up smoking today because that box looks well marketed' Rolling Eyes

I do wonder if it will have any implications for the large amounts of black market/counterfeit cigs ferried in across the EU. It may further rise sales for the ones from countries using original packaging, which could actually have a negative effect on smokers health due to the amount of additional crap that gets put into half of them.
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

dydey90 wrote:
Karma Top figures!

It's interesting how prices have increased roughly 480%, yet the income has only doubled. Does that mean there are half as many people smoking now?
Based on the 1990 income, if the same amount of tobacco had been sold last year, there would have been an additional £20 billion in tax. I bet that would have helped out the NHS.



Its not that simple. I use cigarettes as an example of price elasticity distortions in some of my A level classes.

Price elasticity of normal goods is supply/demand based and people make rational choices based on limits. You have £10 you can buy 10 £1 items. You have £9 you can buy 9 £1 items etc.

Addition goods i.e. cigs have different steeper curves, where you can increase the price and people will still buy them, up until they hit the limiting level, say they don't have any money left.

The make the price so high doesn't work as people seek alternatives or they buy smuggled ones and you create Al Capones types.
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thepuma
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PostPosted: 20:20 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant see plain packaging making any difference whatsoever. If you're daft enough to smoke knowing the health implications of doing so, then a plain packet (or any other design) aint gonna stop you smoking.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about we let people do what they want.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepuma wrote:
Cant see speed limits making any difference whatsoever. If you're daft enough to ride a motorbike knowing the health risks of doing so, then a speed limit (or any other traffic calming measure) aint gonna stop you riding.


I wonder how that reads.
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thepuma
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PostPosted: 20:37 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaNsA wrote:
thepuma wrote:
Cant see speed limits making any difference whatsoever. If you're daft enough to ride a motorbike knowing the health risks of doing so, then a speed limit (or any other traffic calming measure) aint gonna stop you riding.


I wonder how that reads.


I wouldnt mind betting your far far far more likely to suffer health problems from smoking than suffer health problems from riding (as a percentage of participants)

I wonder what percentage of riders die on the roads compared to the percentage of smokers that die prematurely because of their habbit?
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepuma wrote:
I wonder what percentage of riders die on the roads compared to the percentage of smokers that die prematurely because of their habbit?


Crack on then Very Happy
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thepuma
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaNsA wrote:
thepuma wrote:
I wonder what percentage of riders die on the roads compared to the percentage of smokers that die prematurely because of their habbit?


Crack on then Very Happy


Smokers - 10% fatality
Bikers - 0.07% fatality
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 20:58 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ketchup?
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 21:03 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

thepuma wrote:
Smokers - 10% fatality
Bikers - 0.07% fatality
Not disagreeing with the point nescessarily but it seems unlikely they could get balanced statistics for this. Is it being done on a year smoking vs year biking for example. Or ongoing smoking/riding until death (unlikely possible for many regards riding for example).
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smoking causes Westlife. Scientifically proven. Don't do it kids.
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thepuma
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaNsA wrote:
Ketchup?


0.01% ??


Laughing
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Last edited by thepuma on 21:25 - 05 Apr 2014; edited 1 time in total
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thepuma
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 05 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Matt- wrote:
thepuma wrote:
Smokers - 10% fatality
Bikers - 0.07% fatality
Not disagreeing with the point nescessarily but it seems unlikely they could get balanced statistics for this. Is it being done on a year smoking vs year biking for example. Or ongoing smoking/riding until death (unlikely possible for many regards riding for example).



Well..the figures were somewhat botched together from internet site stats. And to be fair, the 10% for smokers is those that will get lung cancer, so not necessarily die (although more than likely). The motorcycle percentage IS actual fatalaties as percetage of riders.
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janner_10
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PostPosted: 07:22 - 14 Apr 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're stupid enough to still smoke / want to try in this day and age - plain packaging isn't going to stop you Rolling Eyes

Off topic: It's over £9 a pack now I noticed when last filling with fuel and people are still buying the fuckers.
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