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Can this be legal? Discount to one racial type

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Easter Bunny
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Can this be legal? Discount to one racial type Reply with quote
A new garage started up round the corner from us and we got a flyer,
on reading the flyer thoroughly (that'll be a first) it offers 20% discount to fluent Bangla speakers.


Whilst it doesn't say Bangladeshis, its pretty restrictive
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Language is not a protected characteristic for purposes of the Equality Act 2010.

If you want a laugh, ask the EASS what law you'd be breaking by offering a discount to fluent English speakers.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
You need to vote with your feet and boycott such establishments.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 14:01 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Re: Can this be legal? Discount to one racial type Reply with quote
Easter Bunny wrote:
A new garage started up round the corner from us and we got a flyer,
on reading the flyer thoroughly (that'll be a first) it offers 20% discount to fluent Bangla speakers.


Whilst it doesn't say Bangladeshis, its pretty restrictive



Define "fluent". Just learn the Bangla for "discount motherfucker." Thumbs Up
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
If they were smart they would have written the offer in Bangla!
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recman
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Raffles wrote:
You need to vote with your feet and boycott such establishments.


For every non Bangla speaker who boycots, there's probably 400 who'll compensate.
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Easter Bunny
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:
If they were smart they would have written the offer in Bangla!



Thats exactly what we thought!!
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Language is not a protected characteristic for purposes of the Equality Act 2010.

If you want a laugh, ask the EASS what law you'd be breaking by offering a discount to fluent English speakers.


Tricky though... It is restrictive to one 'race' and a handful who happen to know the language. It's not like a job advert where the skill is required, it's a discount that is being restricted to a group based on skill found only very rarely outside a 'racial' group.

I think they could still fall foul of the law as it's so blatantly tied to the group. It's not the same as sayin 'order in French for 10% off' which dispenses with the fluency and is something that many people of all races can do.

Send trading standards round or contact the local rag - I'd love to hear the outcome.
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slowlydoesit
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
Tricky though... It is restrictive to one 'race' and a handful who happen to know the language. It's not like a job advert where the skill is required, it's a discount that is being restricted to a group based on skill found only very rarely outside a 'racial' group.
I think they could still fall foul of the law as it's so blatantly tied to the group. It's not the same as sayin 'order in French for 10% off' which dispenses with the fluency and is something that many people of all races can do.
Send trading standards round or contact the local rag - I'd love to hear the outcome.

Thoughtful arguments, but there is plenty of precedent even in this country. Take Welsh, for example. A requirement that somebody can speak Welsh to a given standard doesn't contradict the equality statutes. You see it all the time in job adverts in Wales. Language is basically exempt, presumably because it can be learned, whereas ethnicity is innate.

That aside, I don't approve of the kind of offer outlined in the original post. As Borgroger says, consider what would happen if somebody offered a discount only to fluent or accentless English speakers...
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
If you want a laugh, ask the EASS what law you'd be breaking by offering a discount to fluent English speakers.

Not a rhetorical suggestion, by the way.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
slowlydoesit wrote:
Thoughtful arguments, but there is plenty of precedent even in this country. Take Welsh, for example. A requirement that somebody can speak Welsh to a given standard doesn't contradict the equality statutes. You see it all the time in job adverts in Wales. Language is basically exempt, presumably because it can be learned, whereas ethnicity is innate.

That aside, I don't approve of the kind of offer outlined in the original post. As Borgroger says, consider what would happen if somebody offered a discount only to fluent or accentless English speakers...


The thing there would be - is it required for the job. Customer facing job in Wales then welsh could be a requirement. Hop over to Norwich and limit jobs only to welsh speakers for no operational reason and there'd be an argument to be made for discrimination.

Essentially, in both cases, you're using a proxy for racial bias. The underlying intentions are clear whether the statement is direct or not.

The more I think about it the easier the case would be... Assuming anyone could be persuaded/bothered to take it up...
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 17 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
If you want a laugh, ask the EASS what law you'd be breaking by offering a discount to fluent English speakers.

Not a rhetorical suggestion, by the way.


Here we go... Illegal:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/19

That'd be a criterion with no legitimate aim...
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 00:03 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
Here we go... Illegal:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/19

That'd be a criterion with no legitimate aim...

And yet language is still not a protected characteristic.
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Easter Bunny
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PostPosted: 08:03 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
The flyer is at the office, Will post up a picture as soon as
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slowlydoesit
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PostPosted: 08:27 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
The thing there would be - is it required for the job. Customer facing job in Wales then welsh could be a requirement. Hop over to Norwich and limit jobs only to welsh speakers for no operational reason and there'd be an argument to be made for discrimination.

Good point, didn't consider that.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easter Bunny wrote:
The flyer is at the office, Will post up a picture as soon as

You mean you'll send it to the EASS / EHRC , local rag, councillors and MP, right?

If not you, then who?
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Marmalade
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Easter Bunny wrote:
The flyer is at the office, Will post up a picture as soon as

You mean you'll send it to the EASS / EHRC , local rag, councillors and MP, right?

If not you, then who?


That's about as much use as giving it to the easter bunny
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Probably. Send a copy to Nigel Farage as well, should be a giggle.
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Easter Bunny
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Easter Bunny wrote:
The flyer is at the office, Will post up a picture as soon as

You mean you'll send it to the EASS / EHRC , local rag, councillors and MP, right?

If not you, then who?



I think I might send it to JVS one of the presenters on BBC3CR he's a right wanker when he gets going
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 18 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
daemonoid wrote:
Here we go... Illegal:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/19

That'd be a criterion with no legitimate aim...

And yet language is still not a protected characteristic.


No... But that's not what the section says. Instead it says that use of any criterion that differentiate people of two races to ensure a discriminatory act can occur is not allowed.

Language, style of hat, anything that can be used to indirectly identify certain 'races' are contrary to the act. The race is the protected characteristic, the language is the indirect identifier in all the real and hypothetical examples in the thread.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 06:50 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
[...]
And yet language is still not a protected characteristic.


No... But that's not what the section says. Instead it says that use of any criterion that differentiate people of two races to ensure a discriminatory act can occur is not allowed.

But that's not what the section says.

S19 wrote:
19 Indirect discrimination

(1) A person (A) discriminates against another (B) if A applies to B a provision, criterion or practice which is discriminatory in relation to a relevant protected characteristic of B's.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1), a provision, criterion or practice is discriminatory in relation to a relevant protected characteristic of B's if—

(a) A applies, or would apply, it to persons with whom B does not share the characteristic,

(b) it puts, or would put, persons with whom B shares the characteristic at a particular disadvantage when compared with persons with whom B does not share it,

(c) it puts, or would put, B at that disadvantage, and

(d) A cannot show it to be a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

(3) The relevant protected characteristics are—

age;

disability;

gender reassignment;

marriage and civil partnership;

race;

religion or belief;

sex;

sexual orientation.

[but not language]


They probably should have put language in there, but they didn't.
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Easter Bunny
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PostPosted: 14:25 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Opps it wasn't fluent it was er worse ........Native Laughing


Very bottom line....
https://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii284/mkbiker/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-05/C4EE872A-7D05-411D-93BF-BD1FF6643632_zpscio7lekb.jpg
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Last edited by Easter Bunny on 17:50 - 19 May 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
Now that's sailing very close to the wind.
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noobRider
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
... and they can't spell calipers
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Irn-Bru
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 19 May 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote
My other half can speak Arabic, we get lots of discount at fast food places Dance! But yes, in general it's bad and illegal Tut Tut Police
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