CDI vs POINT - CG125 WITH HIGH HOAD

[abuhafss]

I am continuously facing low power complaints on CG125/CDI with high load as compared to CG125/POINTS with high load.

For example, the two bikes are traveling on a steep road for 1-2 hours continuously. After, say, 2 hours the CG125/CDI would loose its power and would compel the rider to move back to a lower gear. And some sort of ticking sound could be heard from the engine. Whereas, the other bike CG125/POINTS would keep on moving without any problem.

All CG/CDI models would behave similarly. The mechanics also endorse this performance but with no logical reason. The major difference between the two models is the ignition system so, naturally the mind would point out that the CDI is the culprit. I have learnt that CDI is far more efficient than the points and all new models are equipped with different versions of CDI.

I want to know how do we overcome the low power complaints in the CDI models? Some fellows have suggested to modify the exhaust system and/or fuel/air mixing system. Is there any modification for the CDI unit which could make some improvements??

[N cee thirty]

the ticking is probably wear in the valve gear/ low compression and piston wear, points are shit on a cg unless you like to breakdown, in which i have done that, been there and taken the AA truck home, hopefully all point cg's will die out soon.

Buy a simply better bike if you want more power, a cg is built to do 100mpg and was to get people through their test.
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[abuhafss]

Not all the bikes would be having the wear problem, so why all the CDI models behave identically?

[Teflon-Mike]

CDI's have an inbuilt 'advance by retard' system.

The ignition's 'static' timing is set quite advanced, then as revs increase, the black box reduces the delay between trigger signal and actually letting the spark go from the coil.

Points on a CG I believe are 'static timed' with no advance retard mechanism.

Would have to be mechanical, as early points Benley-Motors or OHC CB125's, with bob-weights on the end of the cam-shaft. For low-maintenance economy commuter, that's sophistication and complexity the bikes just don't need. But computerised electronic ignition made it 'cheap and easy'.

However, run a little 125 flat out for long periods, its going to get hot. Hot engine, weak mixture or over advanced spark, you get 'pinking' and bikes loose power.

Later, CDi GS's were lean jetted for better economy and tighter emission controls... so they will be far more likely to get hot, and far more likely to suffer pinking when they do, if thrashed for prolonged periods.

Bottom line is, CDi is not the cause of the 'problem'.. cause of the problem is running a little econno-commuter designed to do 30-40mph with perhaps brief bursts up to 50+, on rural 3rd world roads, 'flat out' for long periods, trying to stay over 50.

Probably compounded by poor maintenance, were valve clearances and the like, carbon deposits will only exacerbate the issue.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[abuhafss]

CDI has nothing to do with this problem......Okay, got it.

This means, this problem cannot be avoided. And we have to wait until all the POINTS model die so that there is nothing is left for comparison. And one day, we will become use to this issue.

Cannot reach 50mph+ on steep rural road of third word

[Kickstart]

Hi

You could possibly try going up a size on the main jet to richen the mixture a touch, which might lower the running temp a bit. Similarly also check the oil level, or if you are feeling rich add an oil cooler.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[moonzoomer]

I think one or maybe 2 of the older points model CGs had those silly lean burn carbs that done the engine no good at all. You might be able to fit one of these CDI units that fit the Skyteam 125 Ace model, they have a variable advance and are based on a cg engine.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Skyteam-Ace-50-125-Performance-CDI-6-pin-Digital-/400702859071?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5d4bc0673f

[abuhafss]

[N cee thirty]

You'll have to chop the loom abit to make that cdi fit anyway, i was gonna borrow one off a mate from a chinky bike and the connector was totally different.
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[smegballs]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Would depend on the exact engine (and I don't know the oil flow in detail of the CG engine). There are loads of engines which are not liquid cooled which do have oil coolers. The ones that are easiest in general will be those with an external spin on oil filter.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[smegballs]

Would a "safer" method of oil cooling, be just to tap from the sump, use an automotive fuel pump to push the oil through a cooler which drains back to the sump.

You could put a check valve or two in the system so the pump is always primed with oil, plus a thermo switch of somekind to only operate the pump when the oil temps are high. Plus if you don't wan't to the system any more a couple of plugs and its off.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Not sure a normal car fuel pump would cope with the heat, higher viscosity and flow rate (although on the last the flow rate of a CG125 is probably pretty low so likely not something to worry about). Would probably be easier to just squirt cool water from a reservoir over the engine every so often.

But as there is already a pump pushing oil around it doesn't seem worthwhile to add another pump.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[smegballs]

I'm thinking more of my GN250 than a CG, seeing as I'm planning to run it for long periods in hot countries (35-40 deg C air temp) this summer.

Found these on advrider:

https://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc416/lizrdbrth/brianscool.jpg

Which is obviously the kind of thing that is required, here fitted to a TW200.

They explain its operation as:

[Kickstart]

Hi

If the bypass is significant then that might well do it.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Teflon-Mike]

[Kickstart]

[unitynotsocri...]

I'd recommend changing the piston rings , just to be sure both CG s are evenly matched for engine wear .
Points are a feck a round ....BUT ....tunable and less reliable , its possible to alter the power curve a bit more with points , its also possible to blow your engine up by setting the timing too retarded ..

On a CG though , having a wee and a good dump before any comparison/competition should ensure the sophisticated valve train system gives that extra oomph uphills.......allowing lots of TT victories.
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nearly a normal tax paying tosser.......with ferrileness suzi100,cg125,cb125scb100n,cb175,cd100,cj250t,kh250,c15,125 bantam,super 6,rickman gs750,xt500,250rs,dt175,lifan125,dolomite1850,metro,Morris220ld,morrisfg,leyland princess,range rover,corsa,vw camper .now struggling with legs. MORE ORDER = MORE CHAOS

[smegballs]

Okay, okay. To be honest I wasn't too fond of the idea of drilling/tapping my clutch cover/crankcases.

I have found however a nice oil temp gauge, plus a sump plug adapterising device that allows me to screw the 1/8 npt temp sender right into the sump plug. That way I can just watch the nice guage whilst riding.

I only plan to cruise the GN at 50-55 or so, I feel mean making it go faster as the rev needle looms further to the redline than I'd like. Funny as on my 125 I'd just have the throttle pinned to the stop and not care less, leading to faster speed overall.

[unitynotsocri...]

How's about drilling another hole into the oil gallery and fitting an oil cooler , allowing supersonic 55 mph all cruising without melting the aly piston????
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nearly a normal tax paying tosser.......with ferrileness suzi100,cg125,cb125scb100n,cb175,cd100,cj250t,kh250,c15,125 bantam,super 6,rickman gs750,xt500,250rs,dt175,lifan125,dolomite1850,metro,Morris220ld,morrisfg,leyland princess,range rover,corsa,vw camper .now struggling with legs. MORE ORDER = MORE CHAOS

[Teflon-Mike]

[Cyclingbiker]

Points CG's actually do have an advance/retard mechanism on the flywheel. The are bob weights which change the position of the cam that moves the points relative to the crank, so the ignition timing varies according to engine speed.
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Honda CB500s (1999) - Honda CG 125 BR-J (1991)

Mod 1 - Passed - 12/11/12 --- Mod 2 - Passed - 26/11/12