Advice on changing down gears please

[busbar]

I am now 1 week post-CBT and have started to pootle around on my YBR, although I have just completed only my 3rd solo adventure as it has pi$$ed down pretty much all week and most of the weekend.

I feel I am improving, albeit slowly, but the one procedure that seems to be taking a lot of thought is changing down gears as I approach a junction. At the moment I am trying to judge my distance from the junction along with my speed to decide what gear I should be changing down into as I make my approach, the idea being I end up in 2nd with clutch pulled in as I reach the junction so I can either just let out the clutch and carefully emerge without stopping if my way is clear, or stop fully and kick it down into 1st/neutral whilst stationary to wait until I can safely pull out. Although I guess this all comes naturally with practice, at the moment I get a bit concerned about changing down prematurely and crawling to the junction or ending up in the wrong gear as I come to a halt.

Last night I was talking to a biker and he said although what I'm doing using engine braking - clutch in, change down a gear, clutch out and repeat - is the proper way, he also told me that I shouldn't worry too much because if ever I realise I'm in 5th and need to be in 2nd, I can simply pull in the clutch and kick down 3 times without letting the clutch back out as long as the bike is still moving.

Is it ok to do this?

[pinkyfloyd]

[MC]

Some bikes don't like going down through the gears quickly, although it isn't an issue if you need to do this. What your doing is the best way, when you get more experience/confidence you'll be able to virtually come to a stop using engine braking (if you want to).
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Yamaha MT-03 '08 (crashed)
Honda XR-125L '04

[Teflon-Mike]

Common issue with new riders; and oft given advice: WHY are you worried about changing down in the first place? What gear are you in?

Place you are likely to encounter junctions you need to give way or potentially stop at, tend to most often be in 20/30mph urban areas. Good chance you are making more work for yourself and making problems changing UP too many gears to begin with.

Think about it; if you don't up-shift, you don't have top down shift. Its making two jobs when none may be necessary. And on typical 125, in 20/30 limit roads... you probably dont even need to be in 3rd, let alone higher gears.

Did you get given the advice on CBT about being in the most 'responsive' gear for speed you are doing? 4th or 5th is NOT it around town. 2nd or 3rd is.

BUT; very common newby issue; working too hard, doing too much; making work for yourself, making problems. Its like you are compelled to do 'something' ALL the time, and shifting gears is something that seems useful, and gives you something to do.... and feels 'right'.

Little bike, little engine; makes maybe 10bhp at 10,000 revs, where it might be able to do 70mph in top gear. Down the bottom of the rev range, though, probably making around 3bhp at less than 3,000 rpm; and 3bhp is as much as a moped has at peak power, to get it up to perhaps 35mph.

So, never going over 30ish, the engine has the power to pull fourth or even 5th gear... wont have much 'spare' for acceleration; BUT will have the power to hold those speeds with those few revs, and it doesn't sound like its screaming its head off, hence why it 'feels' right.

Trouble is; if you are in 5th gear, with the crank turning barely 2,000 rpm, and 'roll off' to slow down... tick-over is only 1,200rpm, its not goung to make MUCH difference.... you have very little engine braking that low, and very little 'throttle response'.. so you shift down, and in 4th, engine will be turning maybe 3000 rpm... you STILL have very little engine braking, and throttle response... 3rd? by the time you have banged down twice to get there, you are probably already down to 20mph, and again, back in the 2-3ooo rpm range, where you wont have much more slowing available in that gear.. and now you are getting close to the junction worried about over slowing or being in the wrong gear at the line....

THIRD is the mother of all work, and let the little fucker BREATH! It has a 10,000 rpm rev range. USE IT.

30mph in 3rd you will probably be pulling maybe 6,000 rpm. might sound a little buzzy, BUT, its still barely half way up the rev range, engine can turn twice that and isn't likely to do itself any damage.

NOW; slowing from 30.... you have 5,000 rpm of 'slowing' available on the throttle. you HAVE engine braking AND you have 'throttle response'.

AND what gear do you think you need to be in at the give way line?

Answer is 2nd.

You only need first to pull away from a stand still. Its a Give-Way, not a stop. Means you ONLY need stop IF there is something to stop for. If not, you can carry on, without stopping, SO you need 2nd gear for 'response' to slow the last before the line, and accelerate away from it.

IF you stop, you have time, whilst stopped to select first for launch from stand still.

SO... approaching a junction, 20-30 mph road, you have NO need to be higher than third, and riding in third, giving yourself the most throttle response to deal with any changes in situation, a 20/30 restricted road might chuck at you, like kiddies kicking ball into street, woman pulling out of a park space not looking or whatever.... you ONLY have one down shift to worry about....

And you dont need to worry about making that shift until you are almost down to walking pace, a couple of bike lengths from the junction, when, you are assessing whether you can 'roll through' or might have to stop.

Country road, where you might be going faster than 50?

OK, well, you'll need 4th to get to that speed. 5th? Is an over-drive, really, its a gear you use to knock back the revs when you can see, you dont need throttle response, to 'cruise' more comfortably, or to eek a little extra speed. Really only needed on a duel carriageway or fast A-Road. On a country lane? 4th is probably more apropriate, even at higher speeds giving you throttle response for corners, as well as the slightly less common hazards of such roads, like tractors coming out from between hedges or the like.

How fast were you going when you changed up to 5th? 50? If so when you are slowing down again, when you get to 50, change back down... how fast were you going when you changed up to 4th? 35-40? again, when you have slowed to that speed, change back down. Its just like changing up, backwards.

EXCEPT.. I suspect, 'short shifting' you are probably in 5th before you are doing 40... and likely to be trying to do all your accelerating and slowing in that gear; denying yourself acceleration to get up to higher road speeds as well as throttle response to deal with changes in road situation; AND compressing ALL your gear changing into very small speed range down under 30mph.

So again, Ride for RESPONSE. Let the engine breath, USE the revs, dont upshift too early; let it rev out, you WONT kill it. out of town 4th ought to give you enough speed and response to do 50 or more, and you ought not need 5th, unless you are on very clear, very open road you KNOW you wont need to change speed much on.

Dont make work for yourself; dont rush stuff, trying to do everything in a hurry.....

- USE the REVS
- DONT make work for yourself making unnecessary up-shifts, that demand unnecessary down shifts.
- USE a responsive gear. and 3rd is the mother of all work, especially on restricted roads.

RELAX and IF you dont have anything to do...DONT WORRY... you dont HAVE to be doing something all the time. so Enjoy the break. Riding is SUPPOSED top be 'fun'.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Robster]

Mike's back on form I see
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Up the bum no babies.

[busbar]

Thanks all for the advice, it is much appreciated, and thanks Mike for a pretty comprehensive guide on gear changing.

I live in a semi-rural village that is surrounded by 60mph limit 'A' roads so within a minute or so of leaving my house I am on these roads, probably averaging around 50mph, nudging 55mph on the straighter, smoother bits and so I do spend quite a while in 5th before I need to change down as I pass through the 40mph limits of the other local village areas. It is when I am reaching the 30mph restrictions of the suburban areas with their junctions, roundabouts and traffic lights that the gear changes are more of an issue and, after reading the responses to my question, I guess I probably am guilty of shifting gear too much. Predominantly a car driver, where the object is to get the engine to purr rather than scream, I think I do try and get up the gears as quickly as possible, sometimes immediately changing back down from 5th to 4th when I realise the bike isn't pulling so well.

Weather permitting, I shall be out on my bike again tomorrow and try and put some of this into practice, try and resist the temptation to go up the gears too much, and allow the engine to rev a little more. I think every time I take the bike out I am relaxing a little more; on her maiden voyage with me at the helm following the CBT last week it was pretty scary stuff and I think I spent it sat rigid with arms as stiff as pokers! This afternoon, pootling down a pretty scenic, quiet road I think I finally managed a relaxed, self-satisfied smile to myself. Progress.

[Teflon-Mike]