useless on country roads, what am I doing wrong?

[Wonko The Sane]

Most of my time spent riding is on motorways and town / city centres along with a large industrial estate.

Due to the industrial estate being full of spilt diesel I've got in the bad habit of keeping the bike very upright and somehow, since being knocked off two months ago I'm very timid of leaning the bike especially in the wet.

Went out for a bit of a blast this afternoon after finally fitting the new rear hugger, checking tyre pressures (they were low, I'm stupid) to find some country roads and make sure my tyres aren't going square.

Big flowing A road was fine but got bored when I caught up with traffic so I turned off onto a much smaller road which would be great to drive down (I always wanted to be a rally driver) narrow and twisty in places but figured, keep the speed down if unsure and I'd be fine

After a while on a right hand corner after a dip in the road I found myself unable to avoid running wide onto the verge, hitting the brakes and rolling off the road at 20mph and coming to a stop safely (an element of target fixation going on here)

But what's causing me to think I'm not going to make it round?

Is it just confidence that the bike is going to find grip / make it round?

Is it me just not positioning myself / the bike where I need to to allow the bike to make it round?

The issue is worse in the wet, I'm convinced the bike is going to slide as it often feels as though it's about to.
____________________
Looking to pass your CBT / Bike tests in Bury Lancashire? try www.focusridertraining.co.uk Would recommend.
They're also on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Focus-Rider-Training/196832923734251

[doggone]

Consciously counter steering will improve your cornering no end.
It will feel like it is on rails.

[Wonko The Sane]

Ta,

Will give it a go on the way home tomorrow,

Can go a longer way home through some twisties
____________________
Looking to pass your CBT / Bike tests in Bury Lancashire? try www.focusridertraining.co.uk Would recommend.
They're also on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Focus-Rider-Training/196832923734251

[Skudd]

Practice with some added practice and a dash of practice. Don't think you can go as fast as you think you should, slow down and LEARN how to ride the roads.
I have found that I'm really rusty at small country roads so take my time getting things right before I speeding things up.
____________________
Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[Itchy]

Recon missions are always good, as are riding with other more experienced riders.

HOWEVER DO NOT PUSH YOUR LIMITS or play catch up with people who have much higher riding ability or are willing to take MUCH bigger risks. This is stupid.

I used to take all sorts of silly risks when I was younger.

For instance a nearby road has a limit of 50mph it can be done at 50mph in 21 minutes.


It typically takes longer because ALL corners are BLIND and people are a bit more careful.

Way back my ability, faith (and faith in your bike, your suspension, your tyres and brakes plays a big part in riding) and stupidity.



I thought I was good as I could do it in a shade over 13 minutes on a 62bhp 200kilo machine. A 109bhp 182 kilo machine shaved this to 11 minutes.

Until I met a bird on a 109bhp 240kilo XJ1300 and a bloke on a Yammy Thunder Ace, they managed a time of just over 8 minutes. Being young and stupid I went after them going way above my risk limit zone. I shaved my time to just over 9 minutes.

It was stupid and it was crazy.


Back then Skudd never came out with us because he thought we were utterly insane and tbh he was right.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[FlightRisk]

Are you sure your tyres aren't already squared off? I've realised that my badly squared off rear tyre is why my CB needs a firm little counter-steer nudge to fall into a turn rather than just rolling in without me thinking about it.

I find there is an element of belief. Believe you will get round the corner and you will. Start to doubt and you'll start to run wide.
____________________
Honda CB500S

[woo]

too many variables to kill you on country lanes listen to what your survival instincts are telling when they say do not hoon it!!

horse poo on the road round bend, animals, gravel, everything, relax and live
____________________
Elen sila lummen omentielvo!

[Wonko The Sane]

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

The b roads round my way are hedge lined or walled so not often you can say for 100% there isn't anything waiting, whether that be mud or dead animal, grit and many etc's. So it's the mantra of position for safety then position for view and can I stop in the distance I can see (or at least an escape route if it all goes tits up )

Physically turning your head to the exit of the corner will start to help in reducing target fixation...trust your bike. Keep it happy by using gentle throttle through the bend, and if the back end slips a little just ignore it best you can. A benefit of being older are my reactions are slower so by the time the back end has finished slipping I've only just noticed.
____________________
Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project

[Cuchulain]

[Wonko The Sane]

[talkToTheHat]

Be able to stop in the amount of road you can see to be clear

Assume all corners will decrease in radius (and then increase in radius) so plan your speed accordingly to above.

Use vanishing point technique to determine whether a corner is tightening or opening out. Compare this to the safe assumption above. It won't tell you if you're going too fast unless you combine it with the first sentence here. Ask google for pictures.

Brake before corners and be on the throttle all the way through, beware of the car driver in front stamping on the brakes about 5 metres from the apex.

Beyond that practice loads, look where you are going, pick lines so you can see through corners, and remember the first sentence is how you avoid getting caught out by something you did't see in time.
____________________
Bandit. does. everything.

[Old Git Racing]

Look for the vanishing point, i.e. look as far up the road as you can see to where the road disappears. If the vanishing point is going away from you, get on the gas. If its coming towards you roll off and brake until it stays a constant distance, if it's a constant distance from you use a neutral throttle.
Look at hedges, walls, telegraph poles etc to get an idea where the road goes. If in doubt back off.

OGR
____________________
2022 Tiger Sport 660 2019 Street Twin 2003 K3 gixxer 1000 1998 Srad 600 track hack

[Dave70]

I did all of my learning to ride a bike back in the IOM and small country roads are where I feel most comfortable because of this.

When I arrived back in the UK a few months back, I felt like a fish out of water. So many big multi-laned roads, complicated massive junctions with traffic coming from a multitude of different directions, ridiculously large roundabouts, speed cameras to look out for and generally so much more going on than Manx roads.

Of course, I'm now getting used to it bit by bit but to me, there's still nothing better than finding a country road that's NSL (although I've not discovered too many round here that are that long yet) I find them so much more enjoyable to ride on than bigger roads.

The thing to do though, is find a nice country road with a fair number of bends and just take it easy until you get familiar with it. Then start taking each bend a little faster each time and keep pushing yourself and the bike a little more. I don't ride as fast on country roads here yet, as I'm not familiar with them. The roads are the only thing I miss about the Isle of Man.

There are dangers though. On more than one occasion I've come round a bend and nearly ended up with my head up a horses arse from having to hit the brakes hard.

Once you get comfortable with a road like that though, I'd say there's no better feeling than chucking your bike from side to side on some good twisty country roads.

Just take it easy at first and don't rush things as you'll come unstuck, mess up a bend and come face to face with another vehicle.
____________________
There ain't no devil, there's just god when he's drunk.

2012: R125 killed by white van. 2016 R125 killed by 30,000 miles of redline. Current: 2016 Kawasaki ER6f.

[Llama-Farmer]

What bike do you have?


If your tyres are already square-ish, it can be very disconcerting to lean much. When I first got my Hornet they were pretty bad, although not visibly flattened in the middle, I've seen much worse.

Anyway they were horrible to corner on, required a lot of effort to lean the bike and then when they got over the edge the bike would suddenly fall very quickly in comparison.

New tyres made it lovely in comparison.



One thing I'd do to get more confidence leaning is find a quiet roundabout. An industrial estate or business park on a sunday maybe where there is very little chance of any traffic. And just keep going round. And round. And round. Starting off at a steady pace and lean, checking the surface for any rough tarmac or pot holes, oil/diesel patches, tar banding etc, anything that could cause problems.

And just build up speed and lean angle as you get more comfortable. The more the right hand side of the tyre is used, the more it warms and the more grip it provides so should get better and better up to a point.


An industrial/business estate car park on a sunday when it's completely empty might be a good place actually, as you could then go anticlockwise too practicing leaning to the left (without having to go the wrong way round a roundabout).



Positive counter steering can make it much easier to lean over though, smoothly but firmly push on the right hand bar to lean right, left to lean left. Gentle though, no shoving on it until you get used to it.



To reduce the target fixation if you turn your head and look through the corner at your exit point or vanishing point then the bike will generally follow. You should be looking as far ahead as possible and is practical... so before you begin braking for the corner you should already be focussing on the vanishing point rather than what is just ahead of you.
____________________
Current Bike: 1999 Honda CB600 FX Hornet
Next Bike: I want a CBR-RR. And I want an F800 GS-A. And a VFR 800. Can I have all 3?
Dream Bikes: Honda VFR750R RC30, Honda NSR500, Ducati 996 R

[chickenstrip]

[dydey90]

I keep thinking that I'm terrible because I don't feel like I'm trying hard enough through this bend, which is on my commute. It's a 90 degree turn on a national speed limit road, followed by a hump-back bridge and then another 90 degree turn.

After that though, other bends no longer seem so bendy.
____________________
This post is probably not serious and shouldn't be taken literally.
Past: CBR125,ER6f NINJA 650, ZZR600 Current: VFR750

[Amber Phoenix]

I'm in a similar boat to yourself, with 90% of my riding being in suburbs and city. It's generally a case of more practice. Get out more, particularly solo runs, where comradery and high spirits may push you a bit more that you skill level (been there, don't that, thankfully just cosmetic damage). Try and go for a really long run or trip across country e.g. go camping or visit a mate a few hundred miles away, but pick a route that avoid motorways/dual carriageways as much as possible. Once you've ridden for an hour or two, you start to relax more and things get smoother.

Shake you speed off before the bends, rolling off throttle, brakes or dropping down a gear. Look at where you want to go, gradually roll back on throttle as you go through the bend and back up to speed as you come out. To counter steer, just 'push down' on the bar that's on the inside of the bend. Learning further is scary at first, but trust in your tyres and grip comes with time. After an off, it's only natural for your confidence to take a knock and it can take months to regain it, perfectly normal.

Make sure your elbows are nicely relaxed. I still keep finding myself tensing up with rigid straight arms, making corners much harder and riding more tiring as every bump goes up your arms.

As mentioned, if your tyres are very squared off already, they will make it difficult to lean at first, then all of a sudden lean loads - very disconcerting. No, getting your knee down on a bunch of bends won't even them up!

Also, it might be worth double checking you head race bearings, in case it's notchy, which will make it tougher to corner. Lift front wheel of ground, look away from bars, then swing bars full lock and back with one finger - should be totally smooth, with no resistance. If you feel it get stuck or clunk into place at any point, and need a bit more pressure to move on, then get the head races replaced (£15-20 parts, ~1/2hrs labour).
____________________
Beginner Biker Adventures Blog
Yamaha FZ6 S2 2007

[SteveSmith]

I'd suggest getting in some extra training. Google "enhanced rider scheme" for instructors who specialise in post-test training, and they will be good at helping people with just these kind of problems.

That can be pricey though. For a cheaper option see if your local police / council run a "Bike Safe" event, or contact your local IAM or RoSPA club. They will usually take you out the first time totally free with an experienced observer who will be able to watch you ride and give you some good tips.

If after that you decide that the full-on advanced course is for you, it usually costs around £150 for as many rides as it takes plus the test. (Some groups will ask you to pay £10 per ride petrol money to the observer, but other than that they are all volunteer bikers). I did it pretty soon after passing my test, and it was definitely worth it.

Steve.

[covent.gardens]

It's not quite clear to me, from your post - did the dip fuck you up? Would you have made it round ok if not for the dip?

It can be unnerving going round bends and finding a bumpy road, dip, pothole, rut etc, but usually you just have to keep leaning, usually they are a problem for us, more than the bike. Did you hit the dip, feel like you had to straighten up, then crash because you thought you were going too fast?

In hindsight if you took the bend again at the same speed, do you think you could make it, if you leant over more, and/or, didn't react to the dip how you did?

[-Monty-]

[talkToTheHat]

Bikesafe is well worth it and cheap.
____________________
Bandit. does. everything.

[Wonko The Sane]

[Aff]

[qarka]

I have the opposite problem. Love a nice country road, get terrified when I hit a city. Living in Cumbria it's to be expected though I guess. I rode down to London to visit friends last year, had more near-misses that day than I'd had in a year up here.

I'm thinking it's just what you're used to. Of course if you've been riding in the city you're gonna be awful when you hit a nice bendy road. Just like I'm awful at riding in cities. Same as I'd be terrible at the banjo even though I can play guitar.
____________________
Previous - Sinnis Apache - Honda Bros 400 - Yamaha SR500 - Honda Transalp - Kawasaki ZX-7R - Honda CB-1 - Honda 929 Fireblade - Honda NTV650 [b]Current[\b] Honda CB500