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Israeli government filth.

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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 05 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Also, it's ok to disagree with the actions of an organisation/area which launches indiscriminate attacks on civilians, that murders political opponents, that severely restricts the rights of women, that was founded partly with the intention to eradicate a neighbour.

Yet I don't really see that happening much at all from the people that are happy to critics the 'other side'.

I have no problem with so many of the criticisms of Israel, but Hamas ends up being the Elephant in the room when they are not mentioned - or some suggest are actually taking a sensible course of action in relation to the welfare of the people of Gaza.


https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=3940755#3940755

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Dave70
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 05 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slight off topic and largely unreported due to the situation in Gaza.

https://m.hrw.org/news/2014/08/03/israel-shooting-deaths-after-west-bank-protest-0

So what's the excuse here. No Hamas, no rockets being fired, no tunnels...
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stigger
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 05 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
CaNsA wrote:

I understand why you are saying what you are saying, but it is ok to disagree with the actions of "your people".

Also, it's ok to disagree with the actions of an organisation/area which launches indiscriminate attacks on civilians, that murders political opponents, that severely restricts the rights of women, that was founded partly with the intention to irradicate a neighbour.

Yet I don't really see that happening much at all from the people that are happy to critics the 'other side'.

I have no problem with so many of the criticisms of Israel, but Hamas ends up being the Elephant in the room when they are not mentioned - or some suggest are actually taking a sensible course of action in relation to the welfare of the people of Gaza.
I have no love for Hamas or Islam, As far as "irradicate a neighbour" if my neighbour stole my house I'd probably set up some kind of opposition myself.

Complaining that Hamas is in opposition to Israel is like bitching that the French Resistance didn't like the Germans much.
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 05 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mk1GSF wrote:

I'm assuming you have credible evidence to back that up? (the nuclear threats)



https://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm

It's a US army military paper, it's fully cited with sources.
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swampy
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 05 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Also, it's ok to disagree with the actions of an organisation/area which launches indiscriminate attacks on civilians, that murders political opponents, that severely restricts the rights of women, that was founded partly with the intention to irradicate a neighbour.


Which is exactly what several of us are doing here, because as far as I can see the only difference in this description between the Israeli government and Hamas is the 'severely restricts the rights of women' bit, which although deplorable, is probably the least deadly of the items in your list.

Also, there has been considerable attention given to British Muslims traveling to Syria or Palestine to fight, whereas it would appear that people are all cool with 1000 American Jews or 100 British Jews traveling to Isreal to conscript in the IDF with the sole purpose of shooting Muslims...
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 05 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave70 wrote:
So what's the excuse here. No Hamas, no rockets being fired, no tunnels...



Because of two reasons, #1 who is going to punish them for it?

#2 Jewish people consider gentiles (non Jews) differently, while somebody might chirp in with quotes from the Talmud which are of dubious authenticity. I mean FFS it talks about agriculture in some parts.

Anyway I digress.

A simple case is the 10 commandments. It doesn't apply to gentiles, if it doesn't apply to gentiles then there is quite a large implication that there is a differing status between gentiles right?
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krarkol
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 07 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.gospelherald.com/articles/52128/20140806/chaldean-christian-leader-isis-systematically-beheading-children-in-iraq.htm

All these protests from Muslims about Gaza because their fellow believers are getting killed. But when Muslims kill people, no one bats an eyelid.[/url]
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swampy
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 07 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

krarkol wrote:
https://www.gospelherald.com/articles/52128/20140806/chaldean-christian-leader-isis-systematically-beheading-children-in-iraq.htm

All these protests from Muslims about Gaza because their fellow believers are getting killed. But when Muslims kill people, no one bats an eyelid.[/url]


It is entirely possible to hold the view that Palestinians are being fucked over, and to think that Muslims in ISIS could be atrocious cunts.

Its not at all difficult in fact. You should try it..

EDIT: Its not just Muslims protesting about whats happening in Gaza. In fact I would guess most of the figures in the public eye who are 'protesting' are not Muslim in any way...
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Last edited by swampy on 19:38 - 07 Aug 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 07 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

krarkol wrote:
https://www.gospelherald.com/articles/52128/20140806/chaldean-christian-leader-isis-systematically-beheading-children-in-iraq.htm

All these protests from Muslims about Gaza because their fellow believers are getting killed. But when Muslims kill people, no one bats an eyelid.[/url]



Because there are different factions in Islam, much like there are different factions in Christianity.

Consider say China, country full of Chinese people right? Sure if you use a vague description of them.

Go down one step and its 95% Han still highly homogeneous right?

Except those 95% are divided by cultures, traditions, religions and many many things which divides them. Go somewhere in Northern China and outside China they'll say I'm from whatever province, much like Americans who will say they are Texans or New Yorkers before the country.

So while you have an umbrella term like Muslims or Chinese, this is just a lazy umbrella term. Consider the UK, Yorkshire men, Scots all consider their own identities first but all come under the term British.


You look at me and might think bloke from China (you're wrong). So a massive earth quake happens in China (like a few days ago) I don't exactly shed tears for them as they aren't really my people.
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stigger
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PostPosted: 00:57 - 08 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

krarkol wrote:
https://www.gospelherald.com/articles/52128/20140806/chaldean-christian-leader-isis-systematically-beheading-children-in-iraq.htm

All these protests from Muslims about Gaza because their fellow believers are getting killed. But when Muslims kill people, no one bats an eyelid.[/url]
Plenty of people have arced up about ISIS. I difference is with ISIS not being a country there's nobody to actually complain to.

Also if you look all of the stories come from the same Christian activist.

These sibling rivalries are always the worst.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 01:34 - 08 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

krarkol wrote:
https://www.gospelherald.com/articles/52128/20140806/chaldean-christian-leader-isis-systematically-beheading-children-in-iraq.htm

All these protests from Muslims about Gaza because their fellow believers are getting killed. But when Muslims kill people, no one bats an eyelid.[/url]
Protests from Muslims and large amounts of other nationalities, religions and unaffiliated people regarding Palestine I think is more accurate. But theres also been plenty of disgust expressed surrounding ISIS, in media and otherwise. The difference when comparing this and Syria for example to the Israel-Palestine issue is there are two heavily armed, heavily funded, and heavily trained combat forces ''battling it out'' if you will. Hamas Vs IDF was a fairly obvious result - not to say Hamas themselves didn't deserve the result.

The irony with Iraq and ISIS at the moment is Iraq should have the defensive forces in place to provide some sort of sufficient defence against ISIS - especially after they were 'liberated' and then given large amounts of training and funding from the wisdom of the U.S. The reality is many of the Iraqi armed forces are little more than conscripts working for whatever money they can get as a result of their other working options being destroyed through the invasion - as with Afghanistan. If you destroy someones farm ''because poppys'' and leave lots of men without means to fund their families, not suprisingly when Mr Taliban or similar comes along offering a pay-cheque they suddenly become ''militants'', especially after witnessing years of violence, brutality and destruction.

So when ISIS ''comes to town'' commiting the atrocities they are, not suprisingly most of the IA are ditching their weapons and running away/joining ISIS - One supressor to another. ISIS is no doubt committing absolutely horrific actions at the moment - but shock tactics work.

In more recent times, to name a few - Germany used them in WW2, America used them in ''Shock and awe'' - an appropriate definition for their second Gulf war invasion. The fact ISIS is using similar tactics with much success now is no suprise, whether its beheading kids in the street, or inadvertantly bombing kids and everything else from a jet that can't even be seen, it has the same result on the population. Whats more suprising is the shock Western nations seem to have at just how successful they've been. But after various invasions of the Middle East its not suprising - they've had the U.S and allies to show them which tactics work - Making people feel terrified and powerless gets what you want.
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krarkol
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 08 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Hamas ignored the ceasefire.

What are you all going to say in their defence now?
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swampy
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 08 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

krarkol wrote:
Well Hamas ignored the ceasefire.

What are you all going to say in their defence now?


I thought they observed the 72 hour ceasefire ?
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stigger
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 08 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

krarkol wrote:
Well Hamas ignored the ceasefire.

What are you all going to say in their defence now?
Remember me telling you about grownups?

The cease fire expired a talks broke down. Hostilities resumed.
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-Matt-
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 08 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

krarkol wrote:
What are you all going to say in their defence now?
Whos been defending Hamas?

I've seen a lot of defence about the treatment of Palestinian civilians as a result of Israeli actions/regardless of Hamas' perhaps - not much if anything directly defending Hamas though.
Quote:
Israel said militants began firing missiles from Gaza shortly before the ceasefire ended at 08:00 local time (05:00 GMT).
Israel has alleged rockets were fired just prior to the ceasefire ending - although theres no actual verification for that as far as i'm aware besides them saying so. To keep an open mind - it would be easier to dismiss defensive shots right near the end of the ceasefire if Israel fired missiles first - also totally unverified and speculative - but no more proven than Israels accusation as it stands, i'd rather see some evidence for it first before yet another 'Blame Hamas' out the door situation. Also worth noting the ceasefire broke down after Hamas declared Israel didn't meet its demands [and lets not forget Israel has plenty of demands too] - so technically the ceasefire may of ended already if Israel categorically refused to meet one of the debate-points of the ceasefire.

And in some other slightly off-topic news - America has now openly restarted direct military operations in Iraq after a few years of back-seat involvement. I believe Obama said "The tide of war is receding." when they pulled out last time. Sure looks like it Rolling Eyes
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 09 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

-Matt- wrote:
And in some other slightly off-topic news - America has now openly restarted direct military operations in Iraq after a few years of back-seat involvement. I believe Obama said "The tide of war is receding." when they pulled out last time. Sure looks like it Rolling Eyes


Every country the west has got involved in we have fucked up, why should now be any different. Rolling Eyes
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 19 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockets fired from Gaza again.
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CaNsA
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 19 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doovy wrote:
Rockets fired from Gaza again during ceasefire.


But where did the dumb rockets land?

Doesnt matter, best get them there surgical strike missiles of doom warmed up.
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 19 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaNsA wrote:
But where did the dumb rockets land?


Pretty much in the middle of nowhere. But that's okay I guess Wink
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 18:37 - 19 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doovy wrote:
Rockets fired from Gaza again.


https://english.pnn.ps/index.php/human-rights/7996-palestinian-shot-by-israeli-occupation-forces-near-gaza-border

https://english.pnn.ps/index.php/human-rights/7989-israeli-occupation-forces-invade-hebron-and-nablus

https://english.pnn.ps/index.php/human-rights/7981-undercover-israeli-soldiers-shot-and-arrest-a-palestinian-in-aida-camp-bethlehem

https://i.imgur.com/eUUbZiQ.jpg
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 01 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Israel steals land again:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/israel-appropriates-west-bank-land-possible-settlement-112059363.html?vp=1#TmMWvrA
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 01 Sep 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.un.org/News/dh/photos/large/2012/September/529198-israel.jpg
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 21:07 - 25 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Quack wrote:
Dave70 wrote:
Slight off topic and largely unreported due to the situation in Gaza.

https://m.hrw.org/news/2014/08/03/israel-shooting-deaths-after-west-bank-protest-0

So what's the excuse here. No Hamas, no rockets being fired, no tunnels...

Wow, shooting protestors - Bad times


Are you protesting at my post? Thinking
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 23:53 - 25 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ramming a car into a tram station isn't exactly friendly either you know.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 9 years, 157 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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