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Dads '67 Triumph TR6R Trophy, ongoing project.

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chris-red
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 11 Aug 2014    Post subject: Dads '67 Triumph TR6R Trophy, ongoing project. Reply with quote

Right dad bought a Triumph Trophy a good few years ago, it is the epitamy of a usable classic IMO, it is in good Nick mostly original but certainly not concourse.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/145.jpg

At some point about 3-4 years ago something went wrong, I have had trouble getting it out of him what is actually wrong but he thinks it has dropped a valve.

He lacks any enthusiasm to sort it partly because he has a knackered back that makes it difficult to work on it

In October he goes away for 12 days.

The aim being upon his return to present him with an MoT.


Just looking for advice really on where to start with it. Links for places to get parts etc. Is refurbing the head something I can do or is it something it needs to be sent away for? Anywhere in Essex that handles this type of work for old bikes?
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.


Last edited by chris-red on 22:34 - 26 Feb 2015; edited 3 times in total
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Bunny Lingus
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 11 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lone Wolf or Ariel Badger would be the dudes to ask...
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Bullet
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 12 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like an excellent surprise! you might be pressed for time though! I stripped a cbr engine that had dropped a valve and it might sound obvious, but the first step is to check the condition of the components you have.... You should be able to see if its dropped a valve by looking into the inlet and exhaust ports, if it has then strip the top end off the engine and check the combustion chamber, piston, and cylinder, head / valve seats e.t.c for damage then you will atleast know what it is you need to buy Wink you might be lucky and new valves, and valve seat regrind could be enough, but worst case scenario with a dropped valve is a replacement engine as a bad one is capable of turning the entire engine an expesive paperweight! (thats what happened to the cbr I did)
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 12 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you asked that mechanic in Corbets Tey? (Japs motorcycles?) He seems to know his stuff, he'll probably know somebody decent to have a look if he isn't up to it himself, he's recommended me other places in the past.

Otherwise the only local bike fixer upperer nearby that I have seen the work of is Sudden Impact based towards Dagenham but I'm unsure if they deal with classics or not. They did a bloody good job of my dads bike after it's crash a few years back though.

One of the museum curators commutes on a couple of real old classics, a Ducati and a BMW are the main two, I'd imagine he has the work done somewhere or other rather than getting his hands dirty, I'll happily ask him if I spot him around Thumbs Up

Otherwise a quick google throws up these guys: https://www.classicbikerestorations.net/index.html who certainly seem from the website to be well up to the job.

Good luck getting it done Thumbs Up
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 10:37 - 13 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

c_dug wrote:
Have you asked that mechanic in Corbets Tey? (Japs motorcycles?) He seems to know his stuff, he'll probably know somebody decent to have a look if he isn't up to it himself, he's recommended me other places in the past.

Otherwise the only local bike fixer upperer nearby that I have seen the work of is Sudden Impact based towards Dagenham but I'm unsure if they deal with classics or not. They did a bloody good job of my dads bike after it's crash a few years back though.

One of the museum curators commutes on a couple of real old classics, a Ducati and a BMW are the main two, I'd imagine he has the work done somewhere or other rather than getting his hands dirty, I'll happily ask him if I spot him around Thumbs Up

Otherwise a quick google throws up these guys: https://www.classicbikerestorations.net/index.html who certainly seem from the website to be well up to the job.

Good luck getting it done Thumbs Up


I'm good mates with Steve at Japs, I wouldn't ask him to look at this for 2 reasons. He doesn't like working on old bikes and I'm going to try to keep the costs down. That classic bike places looks good, I'll see about getting the head reground. I don't know if it has hard seats but that is definitely something I would look at.

Being a pushrod air cooled twin I think it should be easier than the CBR to strip! I think the bottom line is I'll need to get the head off to know what is what!
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 16:31 - 13 Aug 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

One quick question, how can one tell if the head has had hardened seats fitted? Can it be done by eye?
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a bump as this will be starting Early next week, I literally have no idea what lies in store for me. Shocked

Any advice would be appreciated!
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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CBFcarl
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posting so I can watch this. Cracking cause, good luck with it and I think you should get your dads reaction on video when you have finished it.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 13:45 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBFcarl wrote:
Posting so I can watch this. Cracking cause, good luck with it and I think you should get your dads reaction on video when you have finished it.


That was the plan, I was thinking of giving him an Envelope with the MoT and leaving the garage open with his lid and gloves on it.

That is of course assume I can get it running!
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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garth
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drop me a pm if you get stuck with this, I know I'm in the arse end of Africa at the moment but my old man isn't far from you and knows all there is to know about Triumph twins.

He has four Shocked
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Bloggsy
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try this site www.vintagebike.co.uk loads of info on here I've been out of classic bikes for 14 years but I remember using the cylinder head shop for head repairs they used to be in Wimbledon but a mate said they had moved.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

No experience with that class of bike but if you need any engineering done just shout and if I can help I will.
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Lone-Wolf
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Re: Possible project:- Dads '67 Triumph Suprise Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
I have had trouble getting it out of him what is actually wrong but he thinks it has dropped a valve.



Wotcha.

First off . . . has it dropped a valve ? or is it something as silly as one of the tappet adjusters unscrewed, or a pushrod jumped off ?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have an imperial tool kit?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a heap of imperial spanners as it happens. Loads of seconds and thirds if you're in need of any. Otherwise, they are pretty cheap on eBay even for Britool stuff etc.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 09:49 - 10 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dad has a set of Imperial Spanners but no sockets I have however managed to arrange the loan of a mates halfords Socket set that has imperial sockets for I think I'm OK on that front.

I don't think it has dropped a valve as I (very lightly) kicked it over the other day and there was no resistance (other than compression) it doesn't feel like anything too nasty has happened I'll find out for sure come Tuesday evening when I whip the head off.

Thanks for all the offers of help they are much appreciated and I may well be taking some of you up on in Thumbs Up

PS keep up the blog Garth Thumbs Up
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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HotdogMcDraw
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 10 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck with this, hope you get it sorted in time for your father Thumbs Up
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Lone-Wolf
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 10 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:


I don't think it has dropped a valve as I (very lightly) kicked it over the other day and there was no resistance (other than compression) it doesn't feel like anything too nasty has happened I'll find out for sure come Tuesday evening when I whip the head off.



Wotcha.

If it has compression, then why take the head off ?
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 16:47 - 10 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lone-Wolf wrote:
chris-red wrote:


I don't think it has dropped a valve as I (very lightly) kicked it over the other day and there was no resistance (other than compression) it doesn't feel like anything too nasty has happened I'll find out for sure come Tuesday evening when I whip the head off.



Wotcha.

If it has compression, then why take the head off ?


Because he thought there was damage inside He said he heard a *Crack*. Thinking about it maybe it'd be a better Idea to get a compression tester.
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 00:49 - 15 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right started it today Cool My mate Steve came round to give me a hand.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0112_zps435d67b9.jpg

There she is hiding in the back, the Four was kicked outside and the Trophy brought forward.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0115_zps77283c44.jpg

Last taxed
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0143_zps7bde7002.jpg

A bike from a simpler time
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0141_zpse58ca4b1.jpg
The big switch in the middle is for the lights it has 3 positions, off side and main, The red light on the left is the ignition the blue is for main beam which is controlled by a lever above the clutch (you can just see it on the far left next to it is a horn and an engine kill a bit further left too. On the RHS is the choke. It can have a rev counter fitted but this one doesn't and they aren't cheap. Notice the slightly optimistic speedo!

First thing was to take the plugs out and have a look,

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0114_zps6a4b6a5b.jpg

It was a bit sooty, these will be replaced anyway.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0116_zps6f50e01f.jpg
Steve getting comfortable.

We then did a compression test Left had 100psi, Right 105psi a little low however a bit of oil down each plug whole and that jumped to about 150psi each. I can't seem to find any info on what it should be but I think this is OK.

The battery was fucked, it was reading 5v and about 1/4 of the acid in it should have had. So that was binned, I borrowed the battery out of the KTM which was smaller but fine.

Next as dad has lost the keys we had to hot wire the bike. As you can see by the pictures below it was a really hard.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0117_zpsc069d4fa.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0120_zps5fd3dcea.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0121_zps71a43462.jpg

I was hoping to get a key cut for the barrel as it is easily removed any most locksmiths do this if I take it in?

We then checked all the electrics, all the lights and horn worked fine Thumbs Up One step closer to an MoT!

Next up we checked the plug gaps and tested the spark, gaps where OK and the spark was weak but there on both sides.

Soon after we encountered our first actual problems, namely the petrol taps. The bike has 2 taps one for reserve and one for 'on'. Both of them were seized.
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0122_zps4135157a.jpg

The taps were striped.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0123_zps7fc6e6e5.jpg

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0125_zpsef815eeb.jpg

They are simple just brass on brass, the seal was still good and they just needed a bit of a clean. Then back together and they were fine!

Was also pleased to see the filters looked clear. This was good as the tank had been manky, I know dad pet sealed it a while ago so was relieved to see it clear.

Next stop was the carb, It is an AMAL MonoBloc 389 which IIRC is the best one for the TR6 of this era.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0127_zps87af6cee.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0126_zps0a017869.jpg
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0128_zpsb6f1bcf7.jpg

It was stripped and cleaned looking at it it didn't really need doing, but heyho might as well. Notice the largest brass piece? I spent ages trying to put it back in the carb before Steve told me it was an adaptor for his compression testor Laughing

I also lowered the needle as the AMAL website should it should be in the second position and it was in the top.

I can't find any info on what the mixture/idle settings should be, so have left them as is.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0137_zps6fc2f423.jpg
Carb attached, notice no airfilter, there isn't room! I believe this is fairly common. You can also see the inspection covers for the valves it is that simple as unscrew the cover to get to them. The valve clearances which were fine, they were simple to get to although getting the feeler gauge to fit was a different story and it had to be bent a couple of times.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0132_zpsc44a9f85.jpg

Everything seems fine with it TBH, we spent about 10 minutes kicking it over and were rewarded with it firing into life, Laughing Albeit very briefly. I'm hoping the reason it was a bugger to get running is Old fuel and plugs. We drained the tank (and stuck the old fuel in my Fiesta Laughing ). It was then left for the night. https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/chris-red/Bike%20back%20together/IMG_0139_zps4a33a9ca.jpg

Current Plan is to head to a classic bike shop tomorrow to get all the service items, replace them and hopefully get it to run well. It has been surprisingly easy so far.

A have some questions.

Anyone know what the mixture/idle settings should be or where to find them?

The clutch cracks when you pull it in, I seem to remember it doing this before, but still it doesn't sound quite right?

I'm still slightly concerned about any problems there might be with the head. Dad seemed to think it had a real problem I haven't found anything to suggest this. Is there anything that could crop up despite compression being good and it actually firing?
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.


Last edited by chris-red on 10:01 - 15 Oct 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Lone-Wolf
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PostPosted: 00:55 - 15 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wotcha.

Yep - they are fairly simple to work on. Thumbs Up

In the 4th picture down I noticed the numberplate on the one bike ended in BUE . . . . oddly enough my Bullet also ends BUE { and so does a dustbin wagon in Walsall for that matter } Shocked
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 01:02 - 15 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's also the most fun bike I have ever ridden.

The KTM will throw the nose to the sky, the Speed Four Handles on rails and looks the tits, the Sprint will top 150, and my TDM has brakes that are epically good. However none put a smile on my face like the Trophy. It's hard to explain but it is really nice to ride. You have to really adjust the way you ride. You can do anything quickly. You have to take it easy gear changes have to be slow and the brakes are awful! However it really is a head turner and people don't just turn their heads, they turn their heads and smile Mr. Green
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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Lone-Wolf
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PostPosted: 01:05 - 15 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
It's also the most fun bike I have ever ridden.

The KTM will throw the nose to the sky, the Speed Four Handles on rails and looks the tits, the Sprint will top 150, and my TDM has brakes that are epically good. However none put a smile on my face like the Trophy. It's hard to explain but it is really nice to ride. You have to really adjust the way you ride. You can do anything quickly. You have to take it easy gear changes have to be slow and the brakes are awful! However it really is a head turner and people don't just turn their heads, they turn their heads and smile Mr. Green


Wotcha.

Welcome to my world Thumbs Up Mr. Green
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steveh
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 15 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice! ive got a 67 tr6r im building at the moment, yours looks a clean example!

Steve.
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P.
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 15 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't oil down bores massively increasing compression point to rings?

Fair play for getting it running Smile
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