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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 01:47 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Mathematicians among us... Come forth matherfuckers. Reply with quote

Right, I'm starting an Engineering degree in Australia, and I'm doing a foundation year just to sort me out/prep me for the coming years.

The facts:
I haven't really done any semi-difficult maths since I left school.

Anyway, I've been sent a practice exam to give me an idea of the assumed knowledge before I start the course.

I think I managed to answer 2 or 3 of them, when my course states I should be getting about 21.

I'll upload the exam paper. It has the answers, but that's not the point.

Can anyone explain how they got to the conclusions? I can see the workings, but that doesn't really tell me much.

Get your teach face on

The course starts tomorrow...

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Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 08:19 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Accepts challenge.

Sees first question.

https://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/What+the+fuck+is+going+on+there+no+one+knows+_3682cc8af7247fc57f399e24e3a083ec.jpg

WTF is this shit... I'm not a big fan of Maths, google seems to answer everything for me, which is exactly what I do when I have a question.

Seriously, what the fuck, this is required knowledge?! I'll stick to University of Google. Neutral
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WindyMiller
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PostPosted: 08:58 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't looked through all of it, but quite a few of them are very simple problems. This is stuff you need to get through the course, so it's worth trying to get your head round it.

Q1. Sqrt (a/b) = sqrt(a)/sqrt(b), the square root of 9 is 3, square root of 16 is 4, so sqrt(9/16) = 3/4.

Don't know if that helps, or if that's one of the ones you knew.
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jackw72
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just finished AS maths as a mature student and yes those questions are basic, you will NOT be able to sit a paper like this without knowing nearly everything you need to know!
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 09:58 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

As jack says, these are kind of basic the thing to do is get a decent calculator. Don't go for a full graphing to start with, but a casio with VPAM would help - you'll be able to answer most of these questions just using that.

Next thing... wolfram alpha. That will give you a good explanation of many of the intermediate steps.

Wikipedia is also great for maths so read about each concept in each question there. A GCSE level book on algebra would really help too as a large number of those questions only needed the formula re-arranging.

If you're really stuck with this by next week then I can give you an explanation of the ones you're finding really difficult - PM me. I have a deadline this week otherwise I'd do it now.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Re: Mathematicians among us... Come forth matherfuckers. Reply with quote

mattsprattuk wrote:
Can anyone explain how they got to the conclusions?

Sure. Do you have a couple of months? Sad

OK, that is pretty basic stuff. I imagine that what you're missing is an understanding of what you're being asked to do.

In many of those cases (some of that is effing arithmetic) what you're really being asked to do is to re-write things in a way that looks aesthetically pleasing to an OCD maths spacker.

Move x to here, factor y out, oh, everything is a square, let's sqrt it. Sqrt, sqrt, aaaaaaaaah.

You'll need to learn what mathtards think is pretty, or 'elegant' as they like to call it. There's no shortcut to that, you're expected to figure it out by rote learning. That means working through increasingly complex examples in text books, much as a crayon-muncher has to copy other peoples' scribbles and daubs to get a feel for how "art" works.

Do I use maths? Yes. Do I enjoy it? Not so as you'd notice. Wink
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 10:11 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is no reason for a calculator for this text.....
this I would say is pretty basic stuff. High level GCSE (A*/A).
Wolfram alpha is a good tool, but the free version is restricted. I would be going down to the local library [or torrent/search engine] and obtaining a copy GCSE revision text and an A-level course. Learn about differentiation and integration too. These methods will probably be the most used
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 10:21 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is mostly fairly basic algebra and arithmetic. If you don't know most of it, you won't learn it in a single night. It would have helped if you could have said which questions seem vaguely familiar, and which ones stumped you.

Do you know some general rules of algebra?

(I'm using * to represent multiplication, because x is ambiguous with the variable of the same name.)

For example:

Q3 factorizing - this means turning an expression into a multiplication of two expressions. (This is very useful for solving the value of the equation with the expression equal to zero, because one or the other halves of the multiplication must then equal zero, and you can then solve for possible solutions to the equation. This comes up in Q8.)

(i) 6x - x^2

So x squared, is x * x. Another way of writing it is 6x - x*x. And what's common to both parts in that sum is x. So we can divide both part of the sum by x, and put x outside brackets, representing multiplication:

x(6 - x)

You can see this is the same expression by multiplying it out: x*6 - x*x = 6x - x^2.

The rule you need to be aware of here is (ax + b)(cx + d) = ax(cx + d) + b(cx + d) = ax*cx + ax*d + b*cx + b*d = acx^2 + (ad + bc)x + bd.

You need to have a good feel for how this multiplies out to tackle harder factorization problems. And generally, for these kinds of problems where you're asked to factorize, the answer usually only involves integers (whole numbers) - you're not expected to see fractional patterns in the multiplications. For example,

(ii) p^2 - 6p + 5

From what's stated above, 5 is in the 'bd' spot; but 5 is prime, so that tells me that either b or d is probably equal to 5, and the other is equal to 1. And from p^2 not having a constant factor (it has no constant number multiplying it), that tells me that ac = 1, so both a and c are 1.

Finally, -6p means there needs to be some subtraction in one or the other factors.

That gives enough information to guess at some possible answers:

(p + 5)(p - 1)
(p - 5)(p + 1)
(p - 5)(p - 1)

I figure out which one it is by multiplying them out:

(p + 5)(p - 1) = p(p - 1) + 5(p - 1) = p^2 - p + 5p - 1 = p^2 + 4p - 1
(p - 5)(p + 1) = p(p + 1) - 5(p + 1) = p^2 + p - 5p - 5 = p^2 - 4p - 5
(p - 5)(p - 1) = p(p - 1) - 5(p - 1) = p^2 - p - 5p + 5 = p^2 - 6p + 5

So the answer is the last one, (p - 5)(p - 1).

(iii) y^2 - 36

This one tests your knowledge of a little "trick" in the pattern. Remember "acx^2 + (ad + bc)x + bd" from above? The expression in this question comes about when (ad + bc) equals zero, i.e. bc = -ad. And this happens in equations of the form (ex + f)(ex - f) - I'm using e and f to avoid confusion with a through d in the other rule.

(ex + f)(ex - f) = ex(ex - f) + f(ex - f) = e^2x^2 - efx + efx - f^2 = e^2x^2 - f^2

So the answer to this one is fairly plain once you know the trick - it's (y + 6)(y - 6). e^2 has the value 1, f^2 has the value 36, so e=1, f=6, and it's clear.

I don't know if this refreshed anything. In order for you to pass this test with minimal work, it would need to refresh something. I don't think you can cram this without already having been at least somewhat familiar with it.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erm......

Potato is the correct answer.
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MaybeGuy
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyMiller wrote:
I haven't looked through all of it, but quite a few of them are very simple problems. This is stuff you need to get through the course, so it's worth trying to get your head round it.

Q1. Sqrt (a/b) = sqrt(a)/sqrt(b), the square root of 9 is 3, square root of 16 is 4, so sqrt(9/16) = 3/4.

Don't know if that helps, or if that's one of the ones you knew.


Mystery solved for this one! cheers for that. I couldn't for the life of me figure how they got 75 out of 9/16.

barrkel wrote:
42


barrkel, I'll have a proper read through that when it isn't midnight over here. Fucking awesome post though, looking through it seems to cover most of my WTF's.

It's only a 'test the waters' sort of thing, to see how much work I actually need, but with a mediocre GCSE in maths, I'm going to need a fuck load of work to get this sorted.
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Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:19 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ask yourself honestly if you enjoy it, and how much of the course is going to be maths. I bailed out on physics because it turned out that it was mostly sums and stuff.
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry about it.

All universities do this. Its just an initial diagnostic. So they can categorise you and therefore give you some extra help if you need it. I.e. you cannot fail.

It is bad for business to turn students away.

So when you start the course this gets put on your ILP (individual learning plan), and it is something to work on.

This might be a class so buff up on your maths or a few hours with an assistant.

A university I am contracted to does this with a local partner college on 3 aspects. ICT, English (you need at least level 3) and maths.

If you are weak on the diagnostic they pass you over to the college to do some catch up classes.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best book I ever bought for maths: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Engineering-Mathematics-K-Stroud/dp/1403942463

Answers all of those questions in the first couple of chapters. It's a brilliant book to explain things clearly. It's the only hope I've got of passing my maths module Laughing
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Ask yourself honestly if you enjoy it, and how much of the course is going to be maths. I bailed out on physics because it turned out that it was mostly sums and stuff.

this is what I should have done!
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Sload
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fairly straightforward stuff with a bit of practice. I found this to be very useful when I was taking maths, free extra tuition https://www.khanacademy.org/
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herulach
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 29 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

fatpies wrote:
Don't worry about it.

All universities do this. Its just an initial diagnostic. So they can categorise you and therefore give you some extra help if you need it. I.e. you cannot fail.

It is bad for business to turn students away.

So when you start the course this gets put on your ILP (individual learning plan), and it is something to work on.

This might be a class so buff up on your maths or a few hours with an assistant.

A university I am contracted to does this with a local partner college on 3 aspects. ICT, English (you need at least level 3) and maths.

If you are weak on the diagnostic they pass you over to the college to do some catch up classes.


What kind of mickey mouse uni does this? I haven't read the paper, but based on stuff people are posting up if you can't do that, you can't do A level maths and consequently shouldn't be considering an engineering degree.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 00:03 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the thing to do is get a decent calculator

Okay guys ...
The first important rule about reading exam papers is
READ THE INSTRUCTIONS

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Spudly
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PostPosted: 00:44 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

My father told me x always = 2. Hello journalism degree.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could have done most of that when I left secondary school with a B in Higher Maths.

Couldn't do it now mind.
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woodall57
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

the thing i dont understand about this is how do you use what is on that paper?

how many apples do i buy, x2 or something

thats why i hate maths, most of what you learn you will never use and hardly any of it has a practical purpose Thumbs Up
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 14:48 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodall57 wrote:
the thing i dont understand about this is how do you use what is on that paper?

thats why i hate maths, most of what you learn you will never use and hardly any of it has a practical purpose Thumbs Up


In order to do much applied mathematics (such as needed in engineering), you'd need to know pretty much everything in that paper. Analyzing a physical situation - e.g. a cornering motorcycle - the balance of forces, with a particular angle of lean, coeefficient of friction between tyres and ground, radius of tyre, torque at rear wheel - means using the equations of motion, and depending on what questions you're interested in asking, you'll need to use some or all of these techniques.

I've written little physics engines for video games; those are reliant on the same equations of motion, and you need to solve all these problems using these techniques. That's just my personal experience.

If all you do in life is buy apples at the shop, sure, you don't need much mathematics beyond primary school. But some people aim higher than that.

In the 3rd century BC, Eratosthenes looked at the shadow of a stick on the ground, and was able to work out the circumference of the Earth to within 2%. If the children of his day knew the same techniques described in this paper, they could have done it too.
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shereen
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
Erm......

Potato is the correct answer.


This +1

And I can answer Question 5 so I is awesome! Mr. Green
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

woodall57 wrote:
most of what you learn you will never use and hardly any of it has a practical purpose Thumbs Up

Complete and utter tosh.

All maths has a practical purpose, whether that's calculating the amount of energy hitting the Earth from the sun every second or using the casting out nines method to verify your sums when adding up your shopping list!

There's a fantastic YouTube channel called "Numberphile" which I find interests people in maths who don't really think they like it. Maths is amazing, just admit it. Wink.

As has been said, what is in that paper is (at maximum) first year A Level stuff, it's basic stuff, there's nothing overly complicated and if you spent a week or two with a AS Maths book you could get a base knowledge sufficient to pass that test with 100% marks.

If you do end up going and want a great calculator I suggest the calculator I own, it's a Texas Instruments TI-nSpire CAS. It's great for complex things, has full graphic capability and since it is the CAS (Computer Algebra System) model it can do essentially anything you ask of it maths-wise, put it this way it can answer every single question on that paper by just plugging in the problem, it's an excellent resource for verifying your answers. Thumbs Up.

Good luck man. Thumbs Up.
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woodall57
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paulington wrote:
woodall57 wrote:
most of what you learn you will never use and hardly any of it has a practical purpose Thumbs Up


There's a fantastic YouTube channel called "Numberphile" which I find interests people in maths who don't really think they like it Maths is amazing, just admit it. Wink.

Good luck man. Thumbs Up.


wow that numberphile channel is interesting

kudos you made me understand a bit of math Laughing
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 30 Jan 2013    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with woodall57.

I remember being at school and we had to work out what angle we needed to position a ladder at. We were given all the info and shit.

I just wrote "scared of heights, won't affect me later on in life as I won't climb a ladder"

I haven't used real math outside of school. Google works out anything remotely odd. I can count to 10 and back, I'll be fine Laughing
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