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making 98 600 SRAD to track/race bike and lots of questions

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Wellesley
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Joined: 01 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 02 Oct 2014    Post subject: making 98 600 SRAD to track/race bike and lots of questions Reply with quote

Hi, newby on here after doing a fair bit of searching and lurking.
Yes I read the FAQ of trackdays and racing as suggested.

I've done maybe 8 track days in last 5ish years, mainly on my 01 Ducati 996 Bip which is pretty much stock road bike. Had a bit of a gravel excursion at Donington a couple of years ago but managed to keep it on its wheels. This prompted me to buy some chinese fairings to save the originals which I promptly broke, grasstracking at Oulton first time out. Embarassed but replaced broken bits.

Anyway, made the decision to keep this as the road bike as I love it, sell my old blackbird comfy 2up bike and buy a cheap 600 just for trackdays, with a vague plan to maybe one day do some novice racing. Me and a mate keep chatting about doing this before we're too old. We're both about middle of range in 'intermediate groups' on track days, so in racing terms, pretty $hitty.

I bought a '98 GSXR600 SRAD 31,000miles, a couple of weeks ago for £1200 with a view to making it a track bike. Initially the plan was to rip all the 'road bits' off it, sell them and put a track fairing and make it meet ACU standards for racing and get some wets on wheels. It's in such nice condition, I'd quite like to keep it roadworthy too if I wanted to put it back to road trim, can't see me raising much by selling lights and fairing on ebay anyway.

So far, I have
replaced chain and sprockets, -1 front +1 rear giving a ~9% lowering of gears,
stripped and rebuilt front calipers and replaced front disks and HH pads, plus braided hoses. Bought set of 3 disks offof China ebay which actually seem really good. One of the front discs was corroded and not floating enough and even with cleaning, was causing a little judder (edit, not the chinese ones, the one already on bike). Saving them to maybe put on the wet wheels? or one of them anyway.
changed, oil, filter, air filter, plugs, will flush coolant eventually.
Have a spare rear wheel on the way with disk and sprocket attached.

Plans,
Race fairing and spray with rattle cans, costed to about £350 for all bits,
lockwire the bits that need it, (I know I don't need to for just track days) already drilled sump plug when I changed oil.
Got paddock stands and will prob get some tyre warmers for next year.
Probably will do 4 or 5 track days next year, considering a 3 day away European track day thing too.

Questions on which I'd like advice.
1. Suspension, I've set original to what manual says is 'firm'. Actually feels OK to me but I'm not that great a rider to know. Considering I want to keep it relatively cheap, Should I, flush old fork oil out and replace it? replace rear shock with one with a, less miles better condition, one from a later GSXR of similar length? K6?

2. Tyres, mine are Dunlop Sprtmax Qualifier D207 180/55 rear and a dunlop Sportmax roadsmart front 120/70 at the moment, still plenty tread on both. Plan to use whatever I can pick up part used (scrubs?) offof ebay? Advice on wet's please?

3. Track fairing, OK I know its not essential but would like to do it anyway and keep the flimsy original stuff and lights etc in the loft. Any advice on fitting etc? I've fitted dodgy chinese aftermarket stuff before so expect a bit of fettling.

4. Engine, carbs, exhaust. The bike is totally stock at the moment. Do I leave it as it is? Worry is that if I put an aftermarket can on it, a, it will be too loud for most track days anyway and b, will actually cause it to run too lean and need jets changing/adjusting with associated dyno set up costs£££ ? c. Do I really need that few horses more at my skill level? will probably check balance of carbs myself.

4. Racing, am I wasting my time considering it? I'd probably only enter the odd meeting and see how it goes, just so I can say I've had a go even if its not for me/us. Based in Leicester so near Mallory and Donington, looked at nolimits novice series, sounds OK apart from having to buy particular tyres. I Don't expect to be doing it next year, maybe year after.

I know I have to do an ACU training day/test and have eye test to get a novice licence.

Hoping that someone reading might have experience of some or all of these. I did do some reading first so hope they're not all stupid questions. Very Happy

ps. my '97 Blackbird is still for sale if thats not considered spamming Laughing


Last edited by Wellesley on 15:27 - 06 Oct 2014; edited 2 times in total
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 02 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt an SRAD will be competitive, and you won't be able to enter races for steel framed bikes.

If you're keeping it on a budget then I wouldn't race. It costs a LOT. If you want to stick with trackdays then I'd definitely replace the fork oil with decent oil, replace the fork bushes and the rear suspension linkage bushes and bearings. The shock is probably knackered by now but an aftermarket replacement might be expensive. If you're going to race then I'd go with a Nitron or Ohlins, but to be honest if you're going to race you'd be better off with a newer and better bike.
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 12:50 - 02 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further to what MarJay says, it's the end of the season, pretty soon there'll be plenty of race bikes for sale so you should be able to get a much better bike that will already be track (and race) ready. You'd have to spend quite a lot on a '98 SRAD to make it (less than) half decent and even then you'll still be at a disadvantage when playing top trumps.

Sprockets... you'll want different ones for different tracks.

Corroded front disk that's not floating enough? Sounds like one to get your money back from eBay by opening a dispute.

Suspension... what MarJay says.

Tyres... used scrubs will be fine for trackdays, if you start racing then that's when, if budget allowing, you'll be wanting a fresh set of new tyres for each race weekend.

Fairings... can't really offer advice on that.

Engine, carbs, exhaust... leave it as it is, spend as little or as much as you want on tuning stuff, it's your call. A race can really shouldn't put you over the noise limit for trackdays. Getting it all setup properly on a dyno would be a good investment if you've spent lots on tuning stuff. Do you really need those few extra ponies? Again that's your call but you're not going to get massive gains so a better bike would be worth considering.

Racing... it'd be a waste of time if it's not something you enjoy. Until you're running at the sharp end of the fast group then you're not going to be winning any trophies and you get quite a bit less track time for your money than you would on a trackday so there's an argument for keeping to trackdays until you're 'up to speed' so to speak.

motoforum.net is very excellent if you've not found it already.
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Wellesley
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PostPosted: 13:09 - 02 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks fellas,

Quote:
I doubt an SRAD will be competitive


More competitive than me I suspect Very Happy

Quote:
Corroded front disk that's not floating enough? Sounds like one to get your money back from eBay by opening a dispute.


Nah, it was close by and not a bad price as a private Classified ad so went and had a ride on it. Had passed an MOT so not too bad and only noticed on harder braking than I managed on test ride, so my call to make I suppose.

Quote:
Racing... it'd be a waste of time if it's not something you enjoy. Until you're running at the sharp end of the fast group then you're not going to be winning any trophies and you get quite a bit less track time for your money than you would on a trackday so there's an argument for keeping to trackdays until you're 'up to speed' so to speak.


You're probably right, maybe just stick to track days, but more of them. For a while. Never expect to win anything, finishing would be good enough.

Thanks for advice on other stuff.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 02 Oct 2014    Post subject: Re: making 98 600 SRAD to track/race bike and lots of questi Reply with quote

For trackdays; take track to bike. Ride.
Wouldn't go spending loads of money on track fairings for a cheap old bike.
If the fairings were already in excellent nick, maybe some cheap used ones (be they track or road).

Racing; depends on the club, but you may well soon find yourself getting frustrated as you continually get passed on the straights by people you previously out rode in the corners.
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Old Thread Alert!

There is a gap of 2 years, 29 days between these two posts...

Wellesley
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 01 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 31 Oct 2016    Post subject: Me again, 2 years on. Scrutineering questions Reply with quote

Hi folks,
Me again +2 years and 9 track days on. slowly shaving a few seconds here and there but still in intermediate and enjoying it.

Still thinking, one day maybe we'll enter a race meeting, (after meeting all the requirements, and probably not next year either).

Looking at the technical regulations there's stuff we'd need to do. They're probably a good idea to do even just for trackdays as they're for safety so thinking of working towards it. A few questions on those.

This one,
"All drain plugs must be wired. External oil filter(s) screws and bolts that enter an oil cavity must be safety wired (i.e. on crankcases, oil lines, oil coolers, etc.)"
OK, does that mean lockwire in every bolt holding the crankcase/clutch cover on too or just the ones that go directly into oil? This is will only cost time and £20 for lockwire pliers and a few drill bits.

This one
"All engine cases containing oil and which could be in contact with the ground during a crash must be protected by a second cover made of composite material, metal such as aluminium alloy, stainless steel, steel or titanium. All these devices must be designed to be resistant against
sudden shocks and all devices must be fixed by bolts onto the engine covers/cases. All R&G manufactured covers will be permitted without regard of the material. The chief technical officer has the right to forbid any covers, if the evidence shows the cover is not effective."

A bit stuck with that one, noone seems to make these for my bike, what do you do? Can I make some from sheets of fibreglass, carbon fibre?


I sprayed a set of old road fairings and tank I got cheap on fleabay and they look beautiful now but I would need to modify with an oil catch tray to meet requirements. Might make an additional fibreglass piece

Think I can manage all the other mods though not all that keen on grinding the luggage hooks off the subframe and removing the sidestand.

Anyone had experience of doing the above, and experience of the scrutineering.

I was looking at the 'no limits racing' 2016 Technical Regulations (January 2016) for the newcomer 600 class.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 31 Oct 2016    Post subject: Re: Me again, 2 years on. Scrutineering questions Reply with quote

Wellesley wrote:
This is will only cost time and £20 for lockwire pliers and a few drill bits.

Just the ones that go into the oil.

The engine covers is new to me and wasn't a requirement when I was racing.
However I generally tried to have them anyway - a very sensible precaution. I reckon you could make some up of a solid block that stuck out pretty easily - add some spacers to hold it at the correct distance and hold with longer bolts.


There is a nolimits racing and trackdays social group that you could ask on that may be able to help.

How do you find yourself doing in inters? If near the top, I'd suggest giving fast a go at some point. May find it brings you on more.
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Wellesley
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 31 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahaa, just seen this on the nolimits regulations bit, theres an application for dispensation for 2016 engine case cover thing.

https://goo.gl/forms/BzhfCPbDQl
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Wellesley
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 01 Oct 2014
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 31 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still about mid inters, mate a few seconds quicker, and on newer bike and he's thinking of trying fast group.
Actually had to enter novice at last track day as inters was full but have found that TDO have cracked down on this, telling folks its a nono. There was still folk clearly nowhere near 'novice' in that group though. Here's a link to my best lap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9GCCiMm9Jc
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.Bishbash.
World Chat Champion



Joined: 06 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 31 Oct 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The engine casing must be new for next season, I guess they have had enough of scrubbing oil off the track come race day. It would save A LOT of time, but seems like it's the expense of the racer. Either way, a set of GB racing covers can tackle that regulation.

Regarding the lock wiring, no it doesn't mean ever bolt. Three points I had to wire up;

Sump plug
Oil filler plug
Oil filter - For this I put a jubilee clip round it, tightened it and then lock wired the jubilee clip to the bike some where.

like so;
https://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r94/Neileng/2CO%20R6/760_zps7h1tcr2q.jpg

On a side note, try other clubs for your bike, might be easier for you, try Thundersport GB(who I raced with, great club, they have an excellent newcomers group), Bemsee(about the same as TSGB) or EMRA, a very cheap club and a bit more relaxed IMO. And the experienced is wide.

Regarding your fairings, If I were you, I'd get fibreglass fairings as if you do crash, you can fix them very cheaply yourself, road faings are gone forever.

Also, if you want to get into racing, book into the advanced, you will never learn 'race pace' whilst in the Novices.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 18:01 - 14 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Bishbash. wrote:
pic


Is that a wireless quickshifter?
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 14 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blue_SV650S wrote:

Is that a wireless quickshifter?

Think you can see a wire there?
Mine isn't wireless to the controller from the sensor, but can be setup via bluetooth on your phone!
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.Bishbash.
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 14 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's wired. You can see the cable tie keeping it all neat Wink
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 14 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:

... can be setup via bluetooth on your phone!


You know that just screams to me as a way of remotely tampering with other peoples quickshifters! Very Happy

.Bishbash. wrote:
It's wired. You can see the cable tie keeping it all neat Wink


Ah yes, now you have pointed it out, I can see there are two cables running up north!
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 22:39 - 14 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It came with the bike, so I haven't tried it, but you do have to pair it.

However... I suppose if you were cheeky you could sneakily pair it beforehand, then mid-race set the cut-out duration to 10 seconds or something Smile.
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Blue_SV650S
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 14 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
It came with the bike, so I haven't tried it, but you do have to pair it.

However... I suppose if you were cheeky you could sneakily pair it beforehand, then mid-race set the cut-out duration to 10 seconds or something Smile.


https://i.imgur.com/kAGvTqw.gif
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Nahh
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Joined: 24 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 24 Nov 2016    Post subject: Re: Me again, 2 years on. Scrutineering questions Reply with quote

Wellesley wrote:
Hi folks,
Me again +2 years and 9 track days on. slowly shaving a few seconds here and there but still in intermediate and enjoying it.

Still thinking, one day maybe we'll enter a race meeting, (after meeting all the requirements, and probably not next year either).

Looking at the technical regulations there's stuff we'd need to do. They're probably a good idea to do even just for trackdays as they're for safety so thinking of working towards it. A few questions on those.

This one,
"All drain plugs must be wired. External oil filter(s) screws and bolts that enter an oil cavity must be safety wired (i.e. on crankcases, oil lines, oil coolers, etc.)"
OK, does that mean lockwire in every bolt holding the crankcase/clutch cover on too or just the ones that go directly into oil? This is will only cost time and £20 for lockwire pliers and a few drill bits.

This one
"All engine cases containing oil and which could be in contact with the ground during a crash must be protected by a second cover made of composite material, metal such as aluminium alloy, stainless steel, steel or titanium. All these devices must be designed to be resistant against
sudden shocks and all devices must be fixed by bolts onto the engine covers/cases. All R&G manufactured covers will be permitted without regard of the material. The chief technical officer has the right to forbid any covers, if the evidence shows the cover is not effective."

A bit stuck with that one, noone seems to make these for my bike, what do you do? Can I make some from sheets of fibreglass, carbon fibre?


I sprayed a set of old road fairings and tank I got cheap on fleabay and they look beautiful now but I would need to modify with an oil catch tray to meet requirements. Might make an additional fibreglass piece

Think I can manage all the other mods though not all that keen on grinding the luggage hooks off the subframe and removing the sidestand.

Anyone had experience of doing the above, and experience of the scrutineering.

I was looking at the 'no limits racing' 2016 Technical Regulations (January 2016) for the newcomer 600 class.


I raced this year, had a dabble in the NC600 with No Limits.

As said, engine covers, although im not sure if yours is a carb or injected. You may struggle to find parts (my 2000 CBR doesn't have engine covers). If you can't find the parts, I have an email from NLR stating my bike does not need one. Scrutineers have picked up on it (only at Brands Hatch), so I just told them and was going to show them the email but they passed it.

Also as said, sump plug, oil filter, and oil plug must be lockwired.

You also need a rain light fitted, can be a switch or setup to the dash switch.

Fairings will need to be sealed at the bottom to prevent engine oil loss.

Coolant removed and use distilled water.

DO IT. Newcomers is a vary varied class, from fast riders, to complete novices just wanting to go racing. I've got a few videos on my YT channel from the racing I done in the NC600 class at Oulton and Brands.

You are also eligable for the Pre Injection class in the cup race, but beware, im going fo the championship win this year Wink

You'll love it, and get hooked. Make sure you have a genny, tyre warmers, and tea!
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The last post was made 7 years, 125 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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