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RedPanda
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Another newbie Reply with quote

Hello. I’ve been looking for a decent bike forum for a while and this seems a busy one. I got my CBT and first bike a few weeks ago, a CBF 125.

I’ve had a couple of problems with ‘neutrals’ and the engine screaming at me. There are occasions I accidentally put it in neutral from 1st but worryingly there are more times when into 2nd it revs madly at me and won’t move, I’m definitely in 2nd as there's no neutral light I can get into 3rd easily. The bike only has 4000 miles on it but I don’t think it’s anything I’m doing. Any ideas?

Otherwise everything is fine and I’m really happy to finally have my own motorcycle. I’ll probably be a lurker more than a poster but I’ll hopefully be here for the long haul!
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Barton316
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you oiled the chain since you've bought it? I had something similar with my bike but it was because I wasnt lubricating the chain.
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Minty
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are hitting a false neutral. Be sure to fully engage the clutch before giving a firm kick up into 2nd.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Re: Another newbie Reply with quote

RedPanda wrote:
a CBF 125

That makes me a sad panda. Crying or Very sad

Razz
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd check the chain tension, the clutch free play (there should be just enough slack at the lever that you can wiggle it before the tension comes on), and give it a good firm kick up into 2nd.

If you've done all that and it's still finding a false neutral, then I guess we'll see you in the Workshop section.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Barton316. Keep on top of that chain. It's all too easily neglected. Clean it as often as you can (with paraffin or diesel) and lubricate it well - try a heavy gear oil e.g. EP90.
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Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125
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RedPanda
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all. I'd lubed it once but this evening I've been and bought a proper chain cleaner, used that then lubed it again. I try and be as assertive as possible when changing gears but I guess I can slip into bad habits.

Haha Ste, why are CBF125s a no go? Were it not for insurance costs I'd have liked an R125.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because they are said to be overly prone to corrosion.
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Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will most likely rust and fall apart.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=28154
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 19:39 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

When was the oil last changed? Is the oil level correct? Is the oil a dark brown, or a black sludge like liquid?
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RedPanda
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
It will most likely rust and fall apart.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=28154

I have some Scottoiler waiting for when the weather really turns. That'll hopefully keep salt and other rubbish away.

The engine oil is a dark brown. I check it a couple of times a week at least, I think my dealer over filled a little as it's been above the mark for the past month. Since then it's done just over 500 miles.
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Dave70
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 07 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedPanda wrote:
I'd have liked an R125.
Shhh! It's not advisable to say such things in here.*

Anyway, I can't offer much more than what others have said really. I sometimes have this happen when wearing my Sidi boots but never when I have my TCX ones on. I just have to remember to give the gear pedal a harder kick with the Sidi's. I think it must come down to them being a thinner and softer leather.

You might want to do an oil change too, as there's no way of knowing if the dealer did this or just topped it up.

If you're still having problems after trying all the above, take it back to the dealer and get them to check it out. Thumbs Up


*I own an R125 btw Wink
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Taught2BCauti...
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PostPosted: 07:55 - 08 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar problem when I changed my boots for some that had a thicker sole. There wasn't enough adjustment on the linkage push rod, and I had to remove the linkage from the selector shaft and move it around by one spline.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 08 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a 125, if in doubt, change the engine oil.

It's only about a litre, just use the cheapest 10W40 from your local supermarket. It'll meet or exceed the grade of oil that it's designed to run on (the CBF125 is made in and for India). Avoid high cost car specific oils that boast about friction reducers.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
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Val
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 08 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Panda,

you have said:

RedPanda wrote:
Thanks all. I'd lubed it once but this evening I've been and bought a proper chain cleaner, used that then lubed it again. I try and be as assertive as possible when changing gears but I guess I can slip into bad habits.


Have you removed the sprocket cover and cleaned well all the dirt there?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RooopLieKXo/maxresdefault.jpg

You remove the engine side small sprocket cover and you wash off all the dirt first. Soap water and WD40 is your friend here on the final cleaning phase use more expensive chain cleaner, the guy on the video uses petrol WD40 is better, see how here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RooopLieKXo

Do you have checked your chain slack?

Then after you really clean your chain do change the oil too Smile

The first thing when you buy a car or bike is to change the oil. By yourself so that you know that real quality oil and filter has been used Smile

The engine rebuild is expensive. Even quality oil in comparision is very cheap.

There is no way anybody can analyse the oil by the look of it. You say its dark. It may be good or it may be long time passed due time.

For your bike the oil actually is used to lubricate the clutch as well. So it is very good idea to change the oil.

Long story very short for you the best what you can do is buy some ester synthetic 4T oil with viscosity as recomended or better by your Honda owners manual.

Here are few good Motul and Sikolene high quality ester synth oils:

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-1697-ester-synthetic-engine-oils.aspx#Filter=[EntityIDs=@%2832%29@%2897%29@*ava=0]&

This one is the best value for money for your bike:

https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-912-motul-7100-4t-10w-40-high-performance-lubricant-for-bikes-100-synthetic-ester.aspx

If you do not want to bother with ordering oil online you can buy this from Halfords:

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/motorcycling/motorcycle-oils/castrol-power-1-4t-10w-40-motorcycle-engine-oil-4ltr

Note there is an centrifugal oil filter since you do not know this bike it is good idea to clean it. Usually dealers do not bother to do that! See what happens when the oil filter strainer has not been cleaned:

https://125ccbikeclub.awardspace.co.uk/images/CBF125_Oil_Strainer.jpg

https://cbf125rider.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/how-to-clean-the-engine-oil-filter-strainer/
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Last edited by Val on 00:15 - 09 Oct 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 08 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fully synthetic ester oils in a 125? They're a little over spec and expensive

use a cheap synthetic 5w30 oil like this

https://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/engineoils/5w30-engine-oil/?521776041&0&cc5_247
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Val
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northern Monkey wrote:
Fully synthetic ester oils in a 125? They're a little over spec and expensive


usually I would agree but given the fact that you only need 1L oil and the good ester oil is about £2 more then other oils, really is that expensive?

And the oil you have cited is a car oil with completely different specification Tut Tut

https://www.quickmeme.com/img/b8/b8d1040fd24a4ab58264e561213da0858068c6a8f3901ac9ecae2bd7cb175efb.jpg
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Yamaha Fazer FZS 600, MT09, XSR 900
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 06:17 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honda specification is for 10w30. My re commendation Is nearer the correct specification than any of the oils you list, which are all too viscous
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Fisty: after polishing the tank with the glistenng beads of sweat from my full hot scrotum, I filled the headrace bearings with 10cc of my manmilk
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RedPanda
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PostPosted: 07:53 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again all. I bought oil from my dealer a few weeks ago, some 4 stroke Fuchs Silkolene stuff. I'll have a go at an oil change in the next couple of days, I had the same 'neutral' happen twice at the end of my half hour trip into work today.
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Val
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northern Monkey wrote:
Honda specification is for 10w30. My re commendation Is nearer the correct specification than any of the oils you list, which are all too viscous


agree to disagree here yours is a car oil 5W-30 not approved for MCs, I have suggested Motul 10W-40 motorcycle JASO MA2 approved oil with better then Honda minimum required specification. And if you have any idea about oil you will know 5W oil has less absolute viscosity then 10W oil, which itself is not necessarily bad thing. I am not saying that this engine will probably go with cooking oil, but these are the facts Smile
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Yamaha Fazer FZS 600, MT09, XSR 900


Last edited by Val on 23:01 - 09 Oct 2014; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
these are the facts Smile

You do like to talk in absolutes, don't you? Thinking
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Val
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 09 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Val wrote:
these are the facts Smile

You do like to talk in absolutes, don't you? Thinking


sometimes I cannot stand myself too Smile probably should go now to drink my pills Laughing

https://restlesspilgrim.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Screen-Shot-2013-05-24-at-9.52.33-PM.png
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 08:26 - 10 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
Northern Monkey wrote:
Honda specification is for 10w30. My re commendation Is nearer the correct specification than any of the oils you list, which are all too viscous


agree to disagree here yours is a car oil 5W-30 not approved for MCs, I have suggested Motul 10W-40 motorcycle JASO MA2 approved oil with better then Honda minimum required specification. And if you have any idea about oil you will know 5W oil has less absolute viscosity then 10W oil, which itself is not necessarily bad thing. I am not saying that this engine will probably go with cooking oil, but these are the facts Smile



Once upon a time, I did a Degree in chemical and process engineering, I do understand specific visocity, the measurement of visosity, and the effects of temperature on viscosity.

I also know that the engine spends a lot more time at operating temperature than cold, and for this reason, I know that the second number is more important than the first number when choosing an oil
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Fisty: after polishing the tank with the glistenng beads of sweat from my full hot scrotum, I filled the headrace bearings with 10cc of my manmilk
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Val
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 11 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Northern Monkey wrote:

Once upon a time, I did a Degree in chemical and process engineering, I do understand specific visocity, the measurement of visosity, and the effects of temperature on viscosity.

I also know that the engine spends a lot more time at operating temperature than cold, and for this reason, I know that the second number is more important than the first number when choosing an oil


ok I am confused now - it is proven the engine wear happens mostly when the engine is cold so in that case your oil will be better because 5W means better lubrication then my 10W in the winter and when engine starts on cold.

However when engine is hot the second number is most important and here 30 is worst then 40 - the bigger the second number the better viscosity and lubrication in summer and when engine is hot.

Of course the things are always more complicated because it matters what type of engine you have and what else is lubricated here - like the clutch. Not to mention each company has its own additives like Castrol Mangatec that claims to glue like magnet the oil particles to the engine parts hence less wear on cold starts. And motorcycle 4T oils has different additives then car 4T oils.

Once upon a time I happen to sell parts and oils for a living Smile

Lets leave it here with a draw shall we Laughing

The first number with or without letter W means the grade of the oil. There are 11 viscosity grades: 0W, 5W, 10W, 15W, 20W, 25W, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60. These numbers are often referred to as the "weight" of a motor oil, and single-grade motor oils are often called "straight-weight" oils. The lower the number before W you have oil that can work on coolest winter temperature. Again the higher the grade number without W means the oil can work fine in higher summer temperatures. You cannot have your cake and eat it - nobody can produce good oilthat cover all temperatures like 0W-60. So in hot climate countries you buy 20W-60 oil and in realy cold places you use 0W-30 oils. And of course there are engine limitations here to what oil your engine can accept.

Note you may have oil without W when we have single grade oil like oil 40 for example.

In modern cars/bikes we use multi-grade oil so that we can drive the car in the winter and in the summer without changing the oil.

Say W is winter but its related to the number cannot be used alone 10W oil grade means absolute viscosity of the oil:

Absolute Viscosity is a measure of a fluid's internal resistance to flow and may be thought of as a measure of fluid friction and of the oil's film strength to support a load. It measures viscosity and pumpability of oil when the temperature is cold in the winter.

The second number of the multi-grade oil is oil Kinematic Viscosity:

Kinematic Viscosity is a measure of the fluids resistance to flow and shear under the forces of gravity, or how easily the oil flows to the different parts of the engine when the engine and oil are hot. This measurement influences such factors as fuel consumption, valve-train wear and bearing protection.

For example oil with 10W-40 has Absolute Viscosity (10W) maximum cold cranking 7 000 at temperature -25°C and maximum cold pumping of 60 000 at temperature -30°C

And Kynematic Viscosity HSRV at 150C = 2.9

as per SAE Viscosity Grades for Engine Oils (SAE J300) - December 1999

https://www.widman.biz/English/Tables/J300.html
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Northern Monkey
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 11 Oct 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:

However when engine is hot the second number is most important and here 30 is worst then 40 - the bigger the second number the better viscosity and lubrication in summer and when engine is hot.


I'm now bored of this conversation, however, this logic is flawed. The 'best' weight of oil is the weight which the manufacturer of the engine designed the engine to work at, which is, in this case, 30 weight. The 40 weight oil will have a greater viscosity, resulting in a reduced fluid flow. This reduced fluid flow reduces heat transfer, (google Reynolds number) and may result (unlikely in this case) in insufficient fluid being delivered. The increased viscosity will also increase the internal drag, reducing the power available.

If 40 were better than 30, then 80 must be even better than that, and I could just chuck heavy gear oil in by bike.

I would however, happily chuck 10w40 or 5w30 oil in my bike. What I wouldn't do, however, is pay £12 a litre for the stuff, when £3 a litre stuff works fine, it just doesn't have a little picture of a motorbike on the outside of the bottle.
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Fisty: after polishing the tank with the glistenng beads of sweat from my full hot scrotum, I filled the headrace bearings with 10cc of my manmilk
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