Struggling To Draw A Lesson

[chickenstrip]

So I've been going over Monday's accident in my mind, and failing to see exactly how I went wrong

30+ years riding and I've never had this problem before, very worrying Usually, I am able to take a cold, hard look after an accident, and say to myself, "ok, this is where you went wrong, and this is how you avoid getting in that situation again". But this time, I'm not seeing it.

I keep thinking, "so does this mean I can't ride on an unfamiliar, unlit road safely anymore? Surely not? Why have I not had this problem before?"

I obviously came into the bend too fast. But it seems to me that up to a point, I had a reasonable field of vision, right up to the point when it clicked what bend it was, and had slowed accordingly. Then, at a point where it seemed too late to do anything to save the day, I realised, "oh shit, it's that bend, it's gonna go real tight".

So yeah, I guess then I kinda panic braked, locked the rear, skidded, went down. Fortunately, I had managed to shed most of my speed, and doubt I went down at much more than 20mph, though I can't honestly say what speed it was.

As said, I seemed to be able to see well enough as I approached the corner, thought I had slowed enough. Then suddenly, momentarily, I seemed to not be able to see where the road was.

I spoke with a friend last night, another rider with years of experience under his belt, ex-London courier etc, and he was saying he thought generally I was a good rider, knew how to go fast, but also knew how to be safe. I'm starting to wonder...

Just to stress, this wasn't a high speed accident, and I had thought I was just bimbling along gently and carefully. So WTF?

Help!!
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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[MarJay]

You fell foul of the survival reactions:

1.) Chopping the throttle

2.) Tensing up on the bars

3.) Panic braking

4.) sitting up in a bend

5.) target fixation

Sounds like you did a textbook Twist Of The Wrist crash.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[monkeybiker]

Sounds like you went into a corner too fast and panicked.

[pinkyfloyd]

[chickenstrip]

[chickenstrip]

A lot of that above seems so contradictory. I didn't panic brake, I panicked, all I could see were the chevrons, I looked for something else! Confused? Yeah, you and me both!
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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[MarJay]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Could you have been more tired than you thought? It sounds a bit mad but what happens to me quite regularly when driving on the motorway (and to a lesser extent, longer dual carriageways) is that tiredness creeps up. I'll suddenly snap out of it and realise my concentration has lapsed quite severely.

On a bike this doesn't *appear* to happen. For one thing, only a small fraction of my miles are motorway. Secondly, riding is - for me - considerably more involving. I also know, consciously and otherwise, that because I'm more vulnerable, my concentration levels must be consistently and continuously higher.

But I also know I sleep terribly, night after night (been going on for years). And after binning it the other week, I'm starting to wonder if there are times when I'm knackered and not wholly aware of it. Whether because tiredness is coming on by stealth (then suddenly pouncing), or because I've been fighting for an hour or two and think I've punched through it. Except I haven't.

This is a bit convoluted but I suppose all I'm saying is that I doubt very much whether you would have crashed if you'd been concentrating more. Yes, there are the arguments about better braking technique and so. And they're "right" and "correct" etc. But there's a stage before all that, which is the 'c' word - concentration. Focus. Blah blah.

In my case, I have to admit I'd been caning it for the preceding five miles or so - on really technical, fiddlesome lanes (local stuff I'd ridden bazillions of times). Doubtless, I'd been round the bend that got me at higher speeds. The bike would've pissed it, no question. And yes, it was an instant of target fixation that got me. So in one sense, the "lesson" is to look further ahead, keep my head up, look into the bend, at the 'vanishing point', where the opposite sides of the road appear to meet. Rah rah rah.

Yet this doesn't quite cut it. I've already learned that. Laid up with an injury all you can do is dwell and rehash. My current thinking is that - for whatever reason (could well have been a degree of tiredness that I was sort of repressing, or at least, ignoring), my concentration was faltering. Dunno if this is relevant to your experience. But I do think there's a tendency to stress issues of physical control at the expense of the "mental" side.
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[doggone]

It sounds like my last minor incident, riding along a road I know very well after dark, momentarily thought the bend ahead was more to the left than it really is then realised I was about to run off the road so gently rode into the ditch because I'd misjudged the turn and not enugh time to correct - minor fairing damage.

Sometime familiar roads are worse because you go to autopilot for long stretches.
Being tired or thinking obsessively about some other stressful issue are all unhelpful when riding, because you need almost 100% concentration all the time.

This is a good part of the reason biking tends to be so addictive, because while doing it you have to forget about everything else to some extent. Not unlike a drug effect.

[noobRider]

See an optician? Are your headlights bright enough? It sounds like you might have been tired.
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[chickenstrip]

I've always thought the headlamps on the Fazer (thou, not the same crappy ones as on the 600 boxeyes) were pretty good.

I didn't feel tired at the time, noticeably. Otherwise I probably would have given it a miss that night. But maybe I misjudged myself on that?
I don't think it was an eyesight problem per se, but maybe coupled with unrealised tiredness? Seems too easy a get-out clause though.

Would I be wrong, when fully recovered, to try that road again at night? Part of me says I should. Just that I thought I was going careful.

First two or three times I did that corner in broad daylight, I found it tricky to get right, even taking it easy. Yeah, I could go round it, but it just never felt right. I used to have a problem with the bends on Fish Hill (A44, near Evesham), a psychological fear, but now have no problems as I've gained familiarity with them. But it's never been a case of not being able to see well there.

In all instances here, I'm not talking about trying to get round fast. Just normal, legal, safe riding.
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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[Rogerborg]

Complacency, fatigue, rapidly approaching senility, Ebola.

Slow down, do better next time.
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[chickenstrip]

[Islander]

I'd say a lapse of concentration and lack of preparation leading to a panic reaction. Learn from the off and as the Borg says, do better next time.

[chickenstrip]

[Chuffin Nora]

[G]

Prior to the moment of realisation, were you reading the road ahead using available evidence as per general 'advanced riding' stuff? Obvious signs should be that the vanishing point (the point where the left and right edges of the road meet in this case) was coming towards you. Also, of course; road furniture, trees and so on if any can be seen past the vanishing point of the road.
What was your road positioning like? Where you positioned towards the outside of the corner to get best visibility?

[edit]From your other comments I'm guessing you haven't read motorcycle roadcraft - well worth reading it, as there's plenty of useful stuff in there. I've never found a bit of road that I could 'never get right' - on track, where you're looking for fast reactions and finding the right limits to push at the right times, sure.[/edit]

As ever, the best solution is to avoid a panic situation in the first place.

Once in the situation, as per the rear brake thread; the rear is more likely to slide and you've generally got less fine control with your foot. However, of course the front tends to have less rubber in contact with the ground and you're even less likely to recover from a slide.
Was there oncoming traffic?
How tight was it vs the conditions? Quite possible you would have made it by just leaning the bike over more.
Have you ridden bikes on the limit of cornering traction?

[chickenstrip]

[chickenstrip]

Here you go:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.7300349,-1.4452775,3a,75y,178.04h,70.23t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sca0fqhkmN1FPPokMV2nTqg!2e0

Me and the bike ended up laid by the little island on the right, against the kerb.
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[G]

Ah, well in this case I was incorrect about the 'vanishing point' being where the roads meet. It should be the limit of your vision of the road ahead. That may where the road meets, a crest in the road, or where your headlights illuminate!

So you shouldn't really get to the point where the vanishing point suddenly disappears - it should be the limit of your headlights and if they don't illuminate that far, I'd expect speed to already be fairly low.

And yes, that does mean slowing as you come up to crests - even on straight empty roads - there could be a herd of kittens just after the crest!

Fancy chucking up a link to the place on google maps so we can get an idea of the corner? [edit]Ta.[/edit]

Sorry, by the limit of traction I didn't mean with brakes/acceleration if you took it to mean that - I meant leaning a bike until you are starting to lose traction through lean angle alone.

Of course I should note that all this is easy to say with hind sight and not being in the position - but then there are plenty that will have made the effort to practice all this so it's second nature.

[G]

From the google pics... oh dear .

First off, if you weren't on the hatchings, I would guess your speed was a bit higher. And that doesn't look too challenging a corner for 30mph.

Could a momentarily lack of attention have lead you to be thinking the road is going straight on?
Presuming there wasn't oncoming vehicles (which is another good bit of evidence towards the corner), did your have your headlight on main beam?

I would definitely try riding it again. Maybe even do a few loops around, starting slowly to see what you should have seen/done, then speed it up a bit.

[chickenstrip]

G, I've been riding bikes for over 30 years! I know you're not deliberately patronising me, but I do know how to handle blind crests etc. I've done plenty of fast riding in challenging places and been fine with it. I generally don't speed in 30 limits, I look for and try to anticipate hazards, or potential hazards. The accidents I've had have generally been because I took my brain out and just went daft, when I was younger. This wasn't about any of that.

I do think some complacency has crept in there - I'd even go so far as to say I've known this for some time. But that's not the cause here, honest! I told myself before setting out, "you haven't ridden in the dark for a while, never done this road in the dark, take it easy!", and thought I was.

Momentary lack of attention - that's exactly what I'm starting to think. But my headlamps were the only lighting, and didn't cover the far left where, or just before, the road disappears "behind" the wall...I think

Oh dear indeed
I think looking at that streetview has just made me even more worried about how I got it wrong
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!

[vanderbale]

I had an almost identicle off taking a corner and it was from complacency/overconfidence.

[G]

I would apologise for being patronising - but then I saw where you crashed . And, seen plenty riding for that and longer that don't seem to know how to handle blind crests etc .

Most likely I reckon you mind had decided the road was going straight on and so when you 'work up' and realised it was a corner, introduced that panic.
Seen similar enough times and no doubt similar myself - despite going straight on being an entirely sensible solution, you end up trying to make the corner and pushing limits because 'panic'.

[Suntan Sid]