knee down-related question!

[izzi81]

I have a query
getting your knee down.
Having read lots of discussions on here, and watched a lot of bike racing this year, I've been wondering. What sort of speed do you go at to get your knee down? Watching the bike racing my brother remarked that you must have to be going pretty fast, but you guys say you do it going round roundabouts...
Also, how do you know how low is low enough for the speed and not end up going too low and coming off? I've seen several riders do this in MotoGP and superbikes so how do us mere mortals know what is low enough?
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[bennyb24]

You can get your knee down at about 25mph if the bend / roundabout is small enough !

It's angle (how tight corner is) vs speed which produces lean, its very hard to lean too much for a given speed... which is why some people go round and round hanging of like a fool and never get their KD..... they just need to go a bit faster.

[Fallen Angel]

He makes it sound that simple eh!!!
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[Sparks!]

I've done it at about 10/15mph once doing a u-turn around a small roundabout - sounds clever but it's not... I got my knee down but very very very nearly fell off. (on a small/low ZXR400 with a lot of hanging off)

Don't go too slow, don't go to fast... about 35 seems ideal but depends on the roundabout.

Ask G though as I've seen in a video him riding the RD350 around in a car park in circles with his knee down
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[Visitor Q]

They say dont go to fast cos itll shit you up. If you can go fast enough and its a good corner, i dont see why you should do it slowly. I would have got my knee down yesterday had i had sliders and i was doing about 65. However i value my jeans (not my kneecaps, but they are nice jeans so decided to leave it at that much lean)
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[ProXimaCore]

You need to judge your speed depending on the tightness of the bend. Can be hard to judge on some twisty blind corners. So it's not a good place to practice. I've had my knee down at 30mph and I've had my knee down at 100mph+

The idea of knee down really is to let you know how far over you are leaning, so when the knee is down you're over enough. Going any more is a bit more risky. Although you should get away with it most of the time if the conditions are good.
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Honda NSR125R -> Suzuki GSXR400R GK76a -> Kawasaki ZX636 B1H -> Honda CBR400RR NC29 -> Nothing

[G]

Providing you've got a decent sports bike with decent tyres and a decent surface you should be fine.
Though you don't really need to unless you are trying to get the pegs down, it's best to do a few laps / take a few corners a bit easier before you actually get your knee down to warm the side of the tyre. Now-a-days it doesn't matter so much with current tyres, but it will offer you a bit more confidence at least.

As ben said, it's not so much low for the speed... the bike will be at a certain angle for a certain speed, change the angle and you have to change the speed or the line you are taking, but how much grip they have.
At slowish speeds good tyres should have enough grip to get your pegs down, depending on the positioning of the pegs of course though.

I've got my knee down from I reckon about 10mph on a mini-roundabout to around 130mph-140mph on coppice at cadwell.

Riders that have crashed when racing are just overloading their tyres too much; they are trying to go around a corner at a faster speed than the corner can handle. Luckily they go a lot, lot faster than us mere mortals as well .
If you start to really push it you should feel the back start to give a little bit... at slowish speeds, ie on roundabouts, it will probably suddenly turn in sharply while still leant over. This is the rear wheel skipping across the surface, providing you 'listen' to this and realise you've reached the limit you should be fine.
Push it a tad more and you'll start to get the rear to slide properly, at this point you push it any more and you'll be getting more than your knee down; best to stop before it gets here.


For me, I found initially hanging off like a monkey helped me to get my knee down for the first time, after that I was more confident in leaning the bike more. If you're really flexible you can get completely off the bike which helps initially:

https://www.evilbendy.co.uk/gallery/albums/030704/normal_PICT0117.JPG *

However if you're not so flexible you may find that the more you hang off the more it pushes your inside knee back into the bike.
About one arse cheek off the seat is a fairly 'natural' position.
If you practice this when normal riding it will probably help it feel more familiar, even when you're not leaning that far: I tend to hang off all the time, whatever bike I'm riding and have had a lot less trouble doing it on track etc than some.


* 10 points for gratuitous elbow down pic please

[Sparks!]

G your doing well in the "Art of the tart" well done grasshopper, keep on training

Now you must crouch down, with a tea cup of boiling water on each hand for as long as it takes to read through the Demon Tweeks catalogue - only then may you be the true tart
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[G]

[Fallen Angel]

G - is that you in the pic??

If so, that's impressive - how long you been riding for?
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[izzi81]

thanks for the replies, that makes it much clearer in my head now how it works Now all I have to do is get my head round the idea of hanging off and leaning that much!
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[G]

Yes Fallen Angel.

About 7 years on and off I think now.
Have been fairly solidly riding for the last 3 or 4 years.

It's not actually that hard.
A) Hang off lots
B) Ride around until your rear starts to loose traction
C) Point elbow in direction of tarmac



I did have a few little moment as the rear did loose traction though; the tyres were quite old and knackered though.

[nc30 chick]

If i tried that it would promptly be followed by my elbow, helmet then bike! Maybe I'll stick to leaning just a wee way!

[ProXimaCore]

I found the 400 wanted me to get my knee down. Never done it once on the NSR. As soon as I got the 400 and my new leathers with sliders and the stretchy crotch area (which helps alot) it just happened after 5 minutes of leaving the house.

When I was on your bike Izzi it felt really high up and seemed like a long way to the ground. We should get the others to meet up one day for some roundabout surfing and get the camera out and see how we get on.
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Honda NSR125R -> Suzuki GSXR400R GK76a -> Kawasaki ZX636 B1H -> Honda CBR400RR NC29 -> Nothing

[dandit]

I think the time has come... G need's to get his helmet down now I wish my bandit did corners like that
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[izzi81]

[Demonic69]

Just find a nice quiet roundabout Izzi, not too small but not huge. There are 2 near me I regularyl GMKD on, one at about 35-40 and the other at 80-100. All it takes is practice holding the bike over, aim to get your toe slider down 1st, then hang off more and more. Also helps if you hang off before you start turning, keeps the bike more balanced. I can do it on pretty much every roundy if I'm not going left or straight on and on most decent left and right handers. I never did it until I went to Scunny with Stoo and had a faff. now it's a POP.
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[G]

Personally I see getting your toe slider down as bad form .

Because it's a lot smaller it's much easier to get it caught in any imperfections in the road etc. It also means you’re riding with your feet in the wrong position; your toe should never really go down with the ball of your foot correctly positioned on the peg.

And at the person who we saw that was hardly leaning his gsxr, but was sticking his foot right out so his sparky toe slider scraped on the roundabout: yes we all thought you were so hard!

[ProXimaCore]

[Stew]

[Demonic69]

I know Stooage. I'm in a wheelie practice mood too, as it feels damn easy with this new gearing. You could try left again too

And Geebus, I meant that you leave it off a bit, so you have a vague idea of when your peg is gonna hit. Worked well for me and stopped a total peg-down bin.
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Back on a Blade. Just feels so right.