Best bike for a first project?

[BravoCharlie]

Hey guys,

hope we are well.

I'm looking for a bit of advice. One day, I hope to buy an old bike and restore it to it's former glory... but to be honest, I've never opened up an engine before. So I reckon this winter I can afford a small project to begin with. My (potentially silly) question is, is there a good beginner bike/engine to work on and learn from?

I appreciate that when looking for a project it depends on what's on the market out there, but I just don't know where to start.

thanks,

Barry
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Current: Kawasaki ZL600 Eliminator
Past: Suzuki GZ125, Kawasaki GT550, Kawasaki GPX600R, Honda vrx400,Kawasaki Zephyr 750, Suzuki SV650 K5
Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.

[Albigularis]

If you want something really simple, the easiest thing would be a small 4 stroke single cylinder, like a CG/YBR125. I'd probably go a bit further though, as these are barely worth restoring, you'd be able to buy a good 'un for the price of the parts. There seem to be a lot of knackered ZX6R J models floating about just now, in fact basically all of the older Kawasaki sports bikes are a good shout. Still not massively complicated, but there are simpler bikes. As long as you keep a mental note of what you've done and you're organised, I can't imagine any of the previous generation of sports bikes being much of an issue. Good luck and let us all know what you find!
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Biking history so far-
Aprilia RS125 - Kawasaki ZXR400 - Triumph Street Triple R - Suzuki GSXR1000 L3 - BMW R1200GS - Kawasaki Z1000 - Kawasaki ZX10R C1H - Ducati Multistrada 1200 S Touring - Suzuki Hayabusa

[joncwl]

an old motocross bike, ive restored a suzuki rm 80 1983 to its former glory, easy to work on and i made abit of cash out of it in the end,

i currently have a rm80 1981-82 last of the air cooled models to restore and my god is it simple to work with and easy to strip down and get into everything
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currently being a cager cause winter......the bike will be back out during the summer now

last bike, 1990 yamaha tzr125 (2rk model) - still after a fairing kit for it !!!!!

[BravoCharlie]

Thanks guys,

good ideas so far. I like the sound of the old Kawasaki idea, as I'm a bit of a sucker for them!

the old motocross idea is also a good'un, but I would need to look into it to see which of them aren't 2 smokes.

I've a film project coming up next year that i need a bike for, and it's on quite a tight budget. the plan was to buy an already ratted and matte'd out black bike, but this might be the start of something!
____________________
Current: Kawasaki ZL600 Eliminator
Past: Suzuki GZ125, Kawasaki GT550, Kawasaki GPX600R, Honda vrx400,Kawasaki Zephyr 750, Suzuki SV650 K5
Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.

[Teflon-Mike]

Advice?

Number one rule; double the how much you expect it to cost, double how long you expect it to take, double how much room you expect it to fill.... then think of a number between hilarious and ridiculous, add that to each of the above, and double everything again..... chances are it wont be even CLOSE to what it'll really take... B-U-T at least you'll be a little more prepared for the nervous breakdown!

Also, be under NO illusion, that you can buy some old junker 'cheap', and after lots and lots of hard work, new parts, skinned knuckles and arguments over oily hand-prints.... any-one will value the product of your endeavours anywhere near as highly as YOU, even LESS, that any-one is likely to walk up and offer you cold hard cash for the thing in a greater amount than you have likely spent just on bearings, cables, bolts and other associated 'bits'... let alone, the petrol you'll have burned running to and from Machie-Mart or the local motor-factors, breakers, powder coaters and wherever..... Its a rare restorer who turns a profit from a project, and even rarer for a first timer.

Chances are the ONLY way you will ever get anything like the Value For Money for your project investment, will be IF you can get 'Value' owning and using the bike when its done.

Still want to give it a shot? Oh-Kay...

Well, a project is whatever you want it to be, but, having a clear idea of what you want to achieve at the end, and sticking to it is far more likely to see you actually complete the project than 'having an open mind'; making it up as you go along, and letting new ideas carry you off to the oblivion of e-bay 'unfinished project - Spares or Repairs'.

Also.. Keep it Simple - Keep it STANDARD. Start chasing dreams of building a Rat-Bob-Street-Fighter-Led-Sled... A-N-D you are working 'off the books', where there is NO manual to tell you how something SHOULD be, or give you clue how it should work, or why it doesn't.

So, see comment above about the 'value'. We could suggest many different bikes with different attributes WE think make them a good project base. WE don't have to pay for it. WE don't have to have a use for it.

So, as much as what is cheap or easy or whatever, FIRST QUESTION... do you have a use for the thing at the end? Rather that what is 'good' to restore... what is GOOD to own and ride? Restore THAT! No use restoring something horrible and ugly you is ever going to want to look at or ride, for it to sit in a shed, time wasting all your work as it rusts back to how it started, is there?

Right, that suggestion noted.... remember the first comment; its going to cost you double and double again what you hope or expect, its going to take double and double again, as much time and space and general 'hassle'.... YOU ARE BUYING PROBLEMS

How many problems do you want to buy? What problems are you happiest buying? You do have some influence over this.

BUT, if you don't want to face SO many un-foreseen problems....

DON'T buy some-one else's 'unfinished' project. Doesn't matter HOW much they claim t have spent or what good bits they have poured into it... there is a REASON its 'unfinished'... and bad enough dong work once on a derelict, but when some-one else has tackled that derelict before you? You often have three times the work to UNDO the work they have done wrong or badly, THEN do it 'right'.

Same vein; DON'T stint on your 'base' buy. Chances are that the few hundred quid you spend on the project base, will be a fraction of the all-up project costs; couple of hundred quid saving on it, is probably going to be neither here not there when you are done, and CAN be the difference between it ever BEING 'done'.

So; when you go looking for your project 'base'; derelicts that have never been started as a project, look tempting, BUT, why were they left to go derelict? There was usually a fault that stopped them being ridden, you will have to diagnose and sort along the way, A-N-D its unlikely to have been a quick and easy one, or some-one would have sorted it.. meanwhile, beware... chances are some-one has probably already tried... and give up.

Buy as 'Good' as you can get, up-front. And my advice for a frst timer is NOT to buy either an unfinished project, nor a derelict project in waiting, or even a recent MOT fail with promise of an 'easy' fix.

Buy a Bike you WANT to own and ride, and can get value from using. And buy one that is 'in service', and you COULD use straight away.... rather than trying to resuscitate something on the critical list, or even necromance something from the grave.. get something living, and 'rejuvenate' it.

Then there is BEST chance that the bike is ALL THERE, and it WORKS... maybe scruffy, might not work well, BUT... better to have a broken bit, than a gap; gives you two chances; a) it MIGHT be salvageable, b) when you have to go looking for a replacement... you have a damn site better idea what t SHOULD look like! This is the kind or principle.

Easy, to get carried away on a project, on the 'pretty bits'; paying a lot of attention and money on paint and chrome and new shiney bits.... these do NOT make the motorbike 'work'.

Easy to focus on the engine, and making the thing move under its own power.. but again, only ONE bit of a the motorbike, and before you try make bike 'Go', you SHOULD make sure you have made sure the thing will STOP and STEER so it goes where you want it when you make it move!

So, take a viable bike, you would LIKE to own, and can get value fro USING, that's not a completely lost cause... then give it a make-over, an over-haul, a super-service....

Pull it to bits... its all there, so you know how it comes apart as you do it.... take LOTS of photo's as you go, ad pt the bits you remove in bags or boxes and mark where they came from.... EVEN if they are obviously no good, DON'T chuck anything away until yo have a replacement for it!

Work your way down, and as you go, compile a hit list of jobs you have to tackle, and 'obvious' bits you are going to need...

DO NOT get ahead of yourself and start spending money on bits, util you have big heap of parts, and are ready to start putting things back together.

Then, when you have large pile of parts, and smaller assemblies... start cleaning.

Lots of degreaser, detergent, tooth-brushes and elbow grease. TIME AND PATIENCE.. this is 'key' to a successful project.

Each t 'cleaned', inspected and assessed for condition.. THEN yuo start your overhaul; and my tip, start with the brakes! If good, grease ad re-assemble, if not, strip further, new seals, if needed new pistons; and when 'done' bag and tag and put up for when you have something to bolt t to. Next, wheels. Tyres, Bearings, brake disc; again, clean, assess, replace as necessary; stack for later assembly; Forks next. Pull them apart, clean the stanchions, inspect, decide if useable; replace seals, slider bushes if necessary, re-assemble, 'stack'. Rear Suspesion? Shock, shock links, link-bushed, clean, inspect, make good, stack for later assembly. When you have all that sort of stuff sorted, THEN you can tackle the frame.. which oughtn't take more than a clean and polish or paint.. and THEN you can start bolting bits to t, to make a 'rolling chassis'.... when THAT's together.... THEN you might want to start worrying about the engine!

THEN, you can worry about dressing it up with paint and chrome and pretty bits!

A-N-D.. should go back together easier than it came apart, following the book and the photo's you took, and everything nicely reconditioned, you can get the value from it, everything working as best it can, returning best performance, best economy, best reliability.. whatever it looks like.

BUT, keeping it simple, keeping it stock, starting with something 'tired' rather than completely knackered... you stand the best chance of actually seeing it through, not encountering SO many major problems or hassles or unexpected expenses along the way, AND not getting to the end, and having something that you have no real use for, no-one values as highly as the money its cost you.

There IS no thrill, like the first ride on a bike YOU have rebuilt, top to bottom, BUT that thrill is only there for the person that did the work.. for one or two rides or so..... THEN it has to stand amongst its peers and be judged by what else is in the market-place.

So, at the start, revise ideas of 'cheap' and of 'easy'. A 20 year derelict may be cheap, but it's unlikely to be 'easy'. Something 'simple' like an old Moto-Cross bike, might suggest 'easy'... but, unless you are going to race it when its done? Its doesn't offer an value for the money or effort.

You have to take it all 'on bag', and be sensible, be 'reasonable' in your expectations, B-U-T... only real reason for doing a project bike is to own and ride it at the end, so pick a bike you want to own and ride.. that, sensibly and reasonably can be 'done'... it ent ever gonna be 'cheap' nor 'easy', so don't over-rate those properties in your choosing, rate the properties that are important, the properties that will give the project purpose, and keep you motivated to see it through... the bike YOU want to own and ride, that YOU built, you get at the end of it.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[wr6133]

Anything cheap with plentiful cheap parts. I started building a ZZR but have had to put it on pause due to mangling myself and not being able to work currently. While it's never going to be a valuable bike that'll make me money (or break even) it's a fairly good project because parts are plentiful and cheap. Frame with a V5 cost me £10, my current estimates are to completion I'll be looking at about £800 total that's a ground up nuts and bolts build, biggest single expense is going to be powder coating the frame and swing arm (or about a grand if I buy some fancy new fairings from France).

125's may seem a good start but I wouldn't bother because are you going to enjoy riding it after all the work?

[Rogerborg]

[BravoCharlie]

Good Evening!

Tef, thanks for that, i appreciate it.

you mention a bit about what folk value the bike at, and Rogerborg asks the same.

it's not about profit or making money. the initial plans for the first one is that it could well come in handy for my film project next year, i won't really be arsed about making cash from it, just don't want to ruin the Zephyr and change things on it for the sake of a film.

The classic bike has been something I've always wanted to do really and again it's not about profit. I'm hoping I can make a great build eventually and it'll be something I'll keep hold of. I doubt I'd be as pristine as Blau's bikes or Steveh's Triton, but something I'll take a wee bit of pride in!
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Current: Kawasaki ZL600 Eliminator
Past: Suzuki GZ125, Kawasaki GT550, Kawasaki GPX600R, Honda vrx400,Kawasaki Zephyr 750, Suzuki SV650 K5
Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today.

[azra3l]

I've got a mechanically sound, cosmetically fucked zzr 600 I'm looking to shift. Picked it up about 6 weeks ago and then changed jobs. It's so not the right bike to be doing 600+ London miles a week on..

[azra3l]

I've got a mechanically sound, cosmetically fucked zzr 600 I'm looking to shift. Picked it up about 6 weeks ago and then changed jobs. It's so not the right bike to be doing 600+ London miles a week on..

[stevo as b4]

I even agree with some TM points above.

But you want to get something that you want, want to restore, and would like to ride and enjoy afterwards.

This is 100% more important than choosing a so called easy 1st time beginners resto project, of which there is no such thing really. It's also way more important than choosing a bike simply because it's popular and easy to get parts for, though unless your after something very particular or that means a lot nostalgically to you, this is a factor to think about.

Also be realistic about what you can and can't do, what tools equipment and facilities are available to you, and what skills you have.

I see more and more on BCF and generally, 1st time projects where the person with self confessed little knowledge of bikes, mechanicals and maintenance, expects to do a restoration, and teach themselves to weld, machine parts, paint and repair plastics and panels, and re-build engines/gearbox's. make new wiring looms and do everything themselves.

It's possible with enough time and patience and asking for help/asking questions and for people to show you stuff, to learn a hell of a lot and thus do a lot of work previously never attempted before.

But it's also unlikely, and it's also unlikely that the average joe will have mates/trade contacts and people in the business willing to teach/show them stuff free of charge and not want to take on the job themselves.

If you have no deadline, and no set £££'s or ££££'s budget then over a long time you could learn a lot of new skills and get experience/practice to allow you to do your own major work and specialised tasks on your own bike, such as wheel building etc.

But don't expect to jump into a resto and think I will be able to do everything myself or learn how to, and not need outside services or help. Id say your almost guaranteed to fail if you do this.

Lastly an open ended resto with no time limit, is good in one way to take away the pressures of rushing and possibly cocking things up. But if there is no timescale at all, you could easily end up with bits of motorbike stuck in the back of the shed for 10years that you either gave up on and got on with life, or you forgot all about and where you'd got to or what needs doing.

There is no such thing as bikes to avoid I guess, but at a show on sunday I saw a rolling chassis and 1/2 an engine that was originally a Benelli 125cc scrambler from sometime in the mid-late 70's. It had a nice shape to the tank and panels, but was so incomplete and in a right state, that it would of been a very brave/stupid man who took it on as a project.

Unless you had a garage full of old Benelli parts, or 2-3similar machines to raid for parts or to put together to make one good one, then I think the chances of anyone completing a restoration on this said bike would be pretty damn slim IMO.

Finally don't rule out buying a donor bike for spares, it can seem daft but is very useful in many ways, and you can't do this if the bike you choose is so rare possibly like the example above?

[WD Forte]

[N cee thirty]

i have a 1982 Kawasaki z200 in a million pieces for £150 if you fancy a challenge
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[MCN.]

As you've seen, I've done it, and I'm glad I did it, but I'm in no hurry to do it again.

Although the YR5 will want doing eventually, with that not being standard to start with it's a little bit easier.

[J4mes]

[N cee thirty]

[binoscott]

Currently doing a 78 z200.

It was basically a barn find, but it proving to be an ideal starter bike.

Single cylinder, cheap to buy and relatively common.

[wr6133]

[N cee thirty]