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Royal Enfield Continental GT 250 - Any RE owners?

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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 00:54 - 18 Nov 2014    Post subject: Royal Enfield Continental GT 250 - Any RE owners? Reply with quote

I have acquired my father's RE Continental GT 250, complete with fairing kit and has only seen the road for 3 years until laid up in 1970!

Now obviously it was laid up when it developed a fault hence it has never been ridden since.

I'm told the kick starter does not engage, and there is no spark. Could someone point me in the right direction for help and advice?

Would like to be able to turn the engine over (can be done when in gear and pushing it) with the kick starter so I can assess the ignition fault. I don't want to take the engine apart unless absolutely necessary

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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 01:07 - 18 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/

As good a starting place as any. I'd suggest a workshop manual as a first-off.
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Triton Thrasher
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PostPosted: 09:20 - 18 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some manuals for Enfields here.

http://www.klassiekrijden.nu/downloads.htm#r

Look on page 17 of this: http://www.klassiekrijden.nu/techniek/re-1963-continental.pdf

See the little pawl in the top picture? that could be stuck, or chipped.
Pity it's under the inner cover. Good luck getting that oiltight again.

I expect the kickststart mechanism is the same on most of the Crusader derivatives. A kickstart is a pretty simple device so you should be able to see how it should work, but a typical Brit kickstart drives through its ratchet, a gear or quadrant to the gearbox mainshaft, the clutch, the primary chain and the engine sprocket.

If the rest of the gearbox is working, You may have isolated the fault to the kickstart mechanism.

Being laid up after a short time was sadly typical of Enfield's hot learner 250 bikes.
The popularity of Triumph 350 and 500 engine conversions for them wasn't a good sign.
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks guys, I have accquired a workshop manual and it does indeed appear to be a pawl mechanism on the kickstarter shaft.

Thanks for Hitchcock, that was already my place for spares thank god, I would be lost if I couldn't get any parts for it!

Manual at the ready Smile

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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 08:55 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did they want paying in shilling and farthings?
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Islander
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PostPosted: 09:26 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it an indicator of age that I actually remember Gander & Gray and have actually been to the shop in Manor Park on a few occasions? Laughing

Roger, I thought you shunned the new fangled shillings and farthings in favour of groats. Razz
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

What happen to gander and Gray?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Roger, I thought you shunned the new fangled shillings and farthings in favour of groats. Razz

I've recently been convinced that in fact we made a mistake moving beyond goats as the medium of exchange.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb1rocket wrote:
What happen to gander and Gray?


They went out of business in the late 60s/earl 70s IIRC. My father had a Royal Enfield Super Meteor and we used to get parts and tons of useful advice off of the owner Jack Gray - what he didn't know about REs wasn't worth knowing.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:53 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Islander wrote:
Roger, I thought you shunned the new fangled shillings and farthings in favour of groats. Razz

I've recently been convinced that in fact we made a mistake moving beyond goats as the medium of exchange.


You may have a point there.
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map
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Islander wrote:
Roger, I thought you shunned the new fangled shillings and farthings in favour of groats. Razz
I've recently been convinced that in fact we made a mistake moving beyond goats as the medium of exchange.

I understand it's sheep on the barter system in Carlisle.
Although I also understand from people who live there the sheep can be 'hired' from the local pimp for a chicken, two if you want the kinky stuff.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 19:16 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
cb1rocket wrote:
What happen to gander and Gray?


They went out of business in the late 60s/earl 70s IIRC. My father had a Royal Enfield Super Meteor and we used to get parts and tons of useful advice off of the owner Jack Gray - what he didn't know about REs wasn't worth knowing.


They were still going well into the 80s.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure about that? I seem to remember the shop turning into a plumbers merchants or something similar before I moved out of the area - that would have been around 1980.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 22:59 - 19 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 1985, I worked with a bloke who was into Enfields and I'm sure I remember that name coming up when talking about places to buy parts.

I looked it up on the net and of the very few references, one mentions buying stuff from them in the early 80s, another gives their dates as 1947-1989.
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YBR Ric
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 20 Nov 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you fit the new pawl, ensure it totally disengages with the ratchet teeth as it closes down when the kickstarter has returned to the upright position.

Otherwise it will suffer unwanted wear, leading to premature failure through chipping - and the gearbox grease ends up looking as if someones mixed a pot of glitter into it.

The iron barrel Indian Enfields are very prone to this, despite being very easy to fix.
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 02 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

right bit of an update as to where I'm, no where further yet! Crying or Very sad

However I need to get a spark, the kickstarter is duff and turning the back wheel by hand to open and close the points is a pain. Can I do the job of opening and closing the points by hand? Will this work, or do I have to have the engine turning over?

After doing some research I only need a charged up 6v battery, so the generator is not needed at this stage.

Or am I talking bollocks?

Cheers
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YBR Ric
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 02 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

The engine has to be turning and sparking at the right time for it to work. Continually opening and closing the points to spark the plug will just flatten the battery. But there's no harm in opening and closing them just to see if you do actually have a spark after trying something new.

You need to either bump it in gear to start it - assuming everything else is good to go or fix the kickstarter pawl which is quite simple.
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Triton Thrasher
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 02 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should spark when you open the points with the end of a screwdriver or something. Keep the rest of the screwdriver off the metal parts of the engine.

But to time it, you have to turn the crankshaft.

Are you using top gear and taking the spark plug out when you turn the engine with the wheel? It should be easy.

It almost has to spark if you have a circuit going from battery live to coil LT, then other coil LT to moving contact. then engine case to battery earth. That is, if the fixed contact has continuity to the engine case and the moving contact makes and breaks electrical continuity with the fixed one. The condenser wire should have continuity with the moving contact. Condenser casing should be earthed to the engine case.

Oh yes- you need a lead from coil HT to plug terminal and the plug threaded end earthed to engine case.


Coils are pretty reliable, but they can fail. For a substitution test, a 12V points type coil will spark at least a bit, with 6V. But make sure the things above that should be live are live before you go randomly buying new components to see if they help.
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 16:57 - 29 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right a bit of an update, the bike currently stands like this!


http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ldi9u5wnUHg/VI9XR5crkXI/AAAAAAAACrc/C7M-VyTKlzU/w1026-h577-no/20141215_201404.jpg

Good news everyone! (As James May would say!)

We have a spark with working ignition!
I had to trouble shoot this backwards starting with the coil pack just live with a battery and touching the terminals briefly on and off. This gave a spark. Then I reconnected this back up but left the negative terminal off and connected straight to battery (this is a positive earth bike!) Tried for spark using the contact breaker with my finger and hey presto we have a working ignition circuit Very Happy

Obviously there was no power coming in from the ignition switch but on closer examination the wiring circuit diagram shows a pretty useless setup. The main negative wire from battery goes through a series of connectors and switches, including the headlight and ammeter which were disconnected. So we'll come back to that at a later stage with the electrics troubleshooting.

Now i'm onto changing the oil (obviously it doesn't run so we can't do a warm oil change) Now one question I have for you guys is where the hell is the gearbox filler? And then there is what appears to be two drains screws on the underside. But where do I fill the gearbox with oil?

http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/--pl1-FflNtQ/VI9XDZYCoPI/AAAAAAAACqU/2ovz8RcYYZQ/w1026-h577-no/20141215_201833.jpg
http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2H4D0n6yydI/VI9XKsVQt4I/AAAAAAAACq4/knikgtlIrxw/w1026-h577-no/20141215_201946.jpg


Also how do i get this inspection cap off? I can't find a screwdriver big enough!?!

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6f1GvC-ng9k/VI9Xe_FiPHI/AAAAAAAACr0/FuGfeGeEjKo/w1026-h577-no/20141215_201418.jpg

cheers all Smile
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bradh511
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 29 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could try two screw drivers side by side or a impact scree driver if not try a fairy big chisel with some grips Smile is the bike 6 or 12v i would check your points and clean them replace that coil looks to be similar to a car coil ie mini i suspect it will be shot but test it ......


If you put a live feed from battery to coil after fixing kick start it should run... If this works then try the bike of the ingtion switch .. As live from battery bypasses it...and will tell you if you have a wiring problem.. Or do this if you have no keys and are awaiting some to be made up
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 29 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

cb1rocket wrote:

Also how do i get this inspection cap off? I can't find a screwdriver big enough!?!


I stuck a 50p in mole grips.
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Triton Thrasher
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 29 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pigeon wrote:
cb1rocket wrote:

Also how do i get this inspection cap off? I can't find a screwdriver big enough!?!


I stuck a 50p in mole grips.


Yes, these things appear to have been made for coins.

A half crown may have been an exact fit!
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cb1rocket
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 29 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

bradh511 wrote:
You could try two screw drivers side by side or a impact scree driver if not try a fairy big chisel with some grips Smile is the bike 6 or 12v i would check your points and clean them replace that coil looks to be similar to a car coil ie mini i suspect it will be shot but test it ......


If you put a live feed from battery to coil after fixing kick start it should run... If this works then try the bike of the ingtion switch .. As live from battery bypasses it...and will tell you if you have a wiring problem.. Or do this if you have no keys and are awaiting some to be made up


Thanks, we do now have ignitinon. Its just a case of an exhaust pipe, a clean carb and some fresh oil and petrol and she should be running as sweet as a nut (well hopefully!)
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PostPosted: 23:09 - 29 Dec 2014    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Islander wrote:
Roger, I thought you shunned the new fangled shillings and farthings in favour of groats. Razz

I've recently been convinced that in fact we made a mistake moving beyond goats as the medium of exchange.


So that's how you made your handlebar muffs. Very Happy

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Last edited by Commuter_Tim on 23:11 - 29 Dec 2014; edited 1 time in total
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