Where is electric technology going

[czakal]

I started a post on ultra low emissions and realised I wanted to know more about electric bikes. I never thought much of them before as they're so expensive to buy, but I wonder if costs will come down by 2020 when ultra low emissions rules come in force. And then I would consider electric with the advantages of low running costs and mechanical simplicity. I can't find much information on electric bikes at the moment. Would they cost nearly £10k for a bike equivalent to a 125cc commuter? Are prices likely to come down with all the research and investment going into electric vehicles?

Seb

[RhynoCZ]

Electric powered vehicles are much heavier than petrol powered once. The result is more carcinogenic stuff being blown into the air, when braking. So the cities won't have problem with the ''classic'' emissions, but they will have problem with highly carcinogenic powder which is a side product of brake and tyre wear.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[Rogerborg]

We'll need post-lithium battery technology before real[*] prices can come down. Carbon, silicon, aluminium. Nothing unobtanium.

Actually, I understand that domestic Chinese electric bikes tend to be big heavy scooters with banks of good old lead-acids.

InB4 G's "electrically assisted pedal cycles". It's a laudable idea to keep weight and therefore energy and cost down, but those with a mind to turn up sweaty and smug are likely already doing so.

[*] Without being subsidised by tax money or manufacturers.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Chuffin Nora]

I've been giving this matter some serious thought, and my accumulated wisdom predicts that journeys which involve going and returning via the same route -- at least so far as current technology is concerned -- just aint gonna work. A non-starter, in fact.

The only way forward, therefore, will be to ever return in a roundabout way.

Great news for Track Day enthusiasts!

Because, to work at all,
electricity

needs

a

circuit.
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There's a fine line between integrity

[Snowdonia Rider]

Ooooh yes, I'd love to ride a silent bike that needs to be plugged in every 30 minutes, such a stimulation to the senses.

I hate electric vehicles.
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I want your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle.
Suzuki GP125 Suzuki GSX600F Suzuki SV650S KTM EXC250F SkyTeam Bongo 125
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/SnowdoniaRider

[G]

[Andy_Pagin]

The big problem with all electric vehicles is limited range and very long recharge times. The only way the technology as it is now will ever be viable is if we develop vehicles that can drive into a filling station where a robotic arm unplugs the battery pack and replaces it with a new one. So filling becomes as quick as for a petrol machine, and the real purchase/running costs of the vehicle and it's working life have to be comparable to conventional vehicles.

Problem is it's a chicken and egg situation. It'd realistically require massive government funding and intervention to get something like that going.
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the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
Yamaha Vity -> YBR125 -> FZS600 Fazer -> FZ1-S Fazer

[Snowdonia Rider]

[G]

[KnuckleShot]

I have just had a quick look up on this ultra low emission thing coming into place.
Is this currently just for London or the whole of the UK?

[Snowdonia Rider]

Just London I think.
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I want your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle.
Suzuki GP125 Suzuki GSX600F Suzuki SV650S KTM EXC250F SkyTeam Bongo 125
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/SnowdoniaRider

[Andy_Pagin]

[G]

[talkToTheHat]

I used to race RC cars as a teenager. NiCaD was the battery technology of choice and NiMH was looming. I was of adequate standard, winning club championships and not being too awful at regional and national series. I occasionally tried the petrol cars (nitromethane and premix oil in a methanol base, two stroke, glow ignition) and was massively disappointed at the performance, sure flat out and on pipe there was some power to go with the noise, but for mind-blowing acceleration, 2wd carpet racers every time. Race NiCaD batteries were good for a season if that and I'd have 3 or more good sets on the go at any time and a handful of degraded sets for practice and suchlike.

Yes, there are plenty of hurdles to overcome and electric motorcycles are very much in the expensive toy category for now because we can't swap batteries or charge in minutes. They won't sell in the small commuter market until they are competitive on price and running cost.

The elephant in the room is battery life though. My 22 year old relic still runs well. How well do modern EV batteries age? Is there any value in a five, ten or twenty year old vehicle? How many of us exist on old vehicles bought for 25% or less of the list price of an equivalent new vehicle? If a bike needs new batteries every 5 years at 60% of a new vehicle cost, how many of us are priced out of the market?
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Bandit. does. everything.

[Ribenapigeon]

Its easy to laugh at electric bikes. But the limitations at the moment are the energy source. When low weight high capacity quick charging batteries come along and petrol bikes start getting burned at the lights then we will all want one.

The potential with electric bikes in terms of smart power management is amazing. A bike could learn your riding style adapt the power delivery to be more efficient and cause less wear and tear. Average speeds could go up. The bike could log performance analyze and then show you what you need to do to improve as a rider. The difference between electric bikes now and in twenty years is like the smart phones today compared with the first mobile phones.

[G]

[Ribenapigeon]

[G]

[Ribenapigeon]

I think my original point stands and is understandable by all those who are not restricted to the most literal understanding of conversation.

[Ste]

[G]

[rideslikean00...]

I thought electric bikes were supposed to have linear torque response unlike an ICE where it performs better in certain rev ranges even in ideal conditions. Maybe that's what boozehawk is referring to?
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Previous/Current Bikes
2013 Yamaha YBR-125ED -> 1997 Yamaha YZF-1000R Thunderace -> 2009 Yamaha XJ-6 Diversion -> 2007 Yamaha FZ6 Fazer S2

[G]

It does.
But that doesn't equate with faster.
It might make it a little easier, but we've already got anti-wheelie, traction control and so on for modern sports bikes, so it's a bit of a moot point anyway
Litre bikes (and frankly, modern 600s too), tend to have a flat power delivery, nothing like an early R6 or a 90s 'stroker.

[Ribenapigeon]

In really simple terms. People don't like new things until they see the new thing working better than the old thing. This doesn't mean the old thing is crap. For instance horses have great traction control. Not many people ride a horse to work though. Early motorcycles were shit didn't stay that way though.

[G]

So, in "simple terms", do you think this is likely to happen, or not?