Does the UK have any real poverty?

[Lord Percy]

Saw a mention of the 'definition of poverty' in that 'pay to protest' thread, so now I'm asking:

Do you think there's any real poverty in the UK?

I'll start.

I think no. There are poor people and there's sometimes massive inequality which could be improved on, but I've never seen actual super-super-poor desperation in the UK.

I'm yet to see a squat camp where the squatters aren't there by some moral choice to escape 'the system'. There are no shanty towns that I know of.

Also we have a welfare system which, although it may be flawed for some, is still enough to put a 24p tin of Value beans on the table when you hit rock bottom. This is better than many other countries.

Thoughts?

Disclaimer: I'm not denying inequality and I'm not denying people do struggle to get by. But I am denying poverty.

[Itchy]

Yes it does.

My return in 2014 I was surprised at how many homeless I would see all over the place in Manchester and the satellite towns. Not just pretend ones either as I'd see many sleeping bags under bridges and in doorways on my night rides.

There is also a small encampment in Moses gate country park nearby.

Shanty towns don't exist because we don't allow them. Similar to 'traveller' encampments there is disapproval of such things. Squatting was made illegal recently too.

The lack of shanty towns actually proves how we aren't a free market at all.

Plus a lot of the benefits individuals get merely go to rent seekers.

Finally the oh we have a welfare system it's better than some poor kid in somalia is unhelpful because it assumes as long as we're better than somebody else it's ok. Which means we can let the situation deteriorate but as long as we're better than XZY...
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[Polarbear]

What about homeless?

I've had people tell me that if you are homeless you can go to a council and get accomodation.

But councils are only obliged to home you if you were made homeless by no fault of your own. Non payment of rent is counted as your fault even if you have a good reason.

Once you are homeless, with no address/contact as far as I can see you have slipped through the safety net and find assistance incredibly difficult to obtain.

Do you count people who are virtually slaves to some gang master? There are too many instances of it being found out for it to be isolated but the authorities aren't interested until something happens (like the shell fish pickers who drowned).

No we haven't got shanty towns but we have people sleeping in tents. There are lots living in old leaky plastic boats on the canal system. I see tham every day, boats that have no motor or heating or water. How many live this way by choice I have no idea.

We humans are very good at seeing only what we want to see. In the words of the Roger Whittaker song - 'Let me take you by the hand and take you through the streets of London, I'll show you something to make you change your mind'

So in synopsis, I think there is huge poverty, exploitation and abuse in this country, it's just a lot better hidden than a third world country where they don't actually care, rather than pretend to care like here.
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[mentalboy]

[Itchy]

[Ste]

[nowhere.elysium]

[Lord Percy]

[daemonoid]

Even homeless charities suggest that the level of homelessness in the UK is less than 2500 at any one time. It is often very visible in certain areas, but the scale is low.

It also has a strong correlation with mental health issues and excessive drug use.

There are ways out of homelessness, the problem is that those who are homeless don't know about them or are not capable of taking advantage of them.

Poverty is the lack of wealth. There are other words for other effects of poverty... Lack of education is not poverty, it is a result of poverty. Starvation is not poverty, it is a result of poverty. Homelessness is not poverty, it is a result of poverty.Etc. there are words or terms out there that describe things, redefining them to suit an agenda does not help.
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[mentalboy]

[Itchy]

[Lord Percy]

[BigShow]

It's all relative.

Compared to the usual suspects like Africa etc, no we don't really have a poverty problem in the UK.

But there are people existing way, way ,way below average living conditions in the UK who compared to everyone else in this country are in poverty.

Also in the UK it's possible to drag yourself up a rung or two if you get your head straight and put the graft in, where in other countries they're stuck at rock bottom no matter what.

[Lord Percy]

[Cat D]

[Rogerborg]

[mentalboy]

[Polarbear]

[Lord Percy]

[orangepeeleo]

I've spent 9 or 10 glorious months of my life in Kabul/Sangin so I might have a skewed opinion of this, but I would say no.

We obv have poverty,what we don't have though is kids rifling through garbage on the street and chewing the last little bits of rotten fruit off some manky watermelon skins!

People always talk about squaddies and 'what they've seen' I was lucky enough to never see any of my bff's blood and guts all over the place, but I did see some shocking, and pretty fucking heartbreaking poverty on patrols etc

I clearly don't see the same here, and I might sound like a bit of a right wing cunt (i'm not btw!) when I say that I see families funded entirely by benefits (the ones in poverty in this country??) chowing down on happy meals because its too expensive to eat healthily, before going home and chilling on their leather recliner and playing PS4 (all from brighthouse ofc!) if they are the ones on the breadline then things aren't so bad right?

[Cat D]

[Polarbear]

[mentalboy]

[Cat D]

[Rogerborg]