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self driving cars: good for bikers or beggining of the end?

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 08:35 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: self driving cars: good for bikers or beggining of the end? Reply with quote

So, self driving cars. It looks like the future but will it be good for bikers as no more stupid humans driving into us, or the beginning of the end of being free to control your vehicle?
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monkeybiker
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PostPosted: 08:41 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they have self driving cars on the road do you really think you will be allowed to ride your motorcycle around them?

I would think once they are deemed safe and reliable they will all be self drive.

Only self driving you will be allowed to do would be in a video game or on a track.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 09:01 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Self driving cars aren't going to be mainstream for a very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very,very, very, very long time. You'll probably be dead before they are.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 09:15 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can imagine them doing a sort of urban circuit along with buses.
In real world driving around our archaic and poorly maintained road system the idea is kind of ridiculous.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are testing these in Milton Keynes between the train station and the city centre.

They are going to be a scream on a saturday night with pissed up girls and boys doing everything from shagging to throwing up in them Laughing

They will also run on the pedestrian areas for the duration of the test.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31364441

The potential for fcuk ups is brilliant Laughing
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Amber Phoenix
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe early days, but they already drive far better than your average Addison Lee taxi...

I say, roll on. Can't be any worse than the majority of drivers out there. At least you know they'll indicate before a manoeuvre, they won't pull any daft and spontaneous lane twitching because the neighbouring lane is travelling 0.5mph faster and you know they'll always look both ways before pulling out!
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
You can imagine them doing a sort of urban circuit along with buses.
In real world driving around our archaic and poorly maintained road system the idea is kind of ridiculous.


What makes you think that?

The software to do the mechanical part of the driving is relatively easy. As is routing and obstacle avoidance.

What isn't easy is spotting obstacles / mapping the world. You need to create a representation of the real world within which the car can navigate. The closer that representation can be created the better. The difficulty is essentially compensating for poor sensors. But... Sensors consistently get better and interpretation of limited data gets better. They'll be here a lot quicker than you think and they'll be a lot better than people at driving.

The likes of Elon Musk (tesla) predict a commercial offering within the next couple of years. I trust him far more than you...
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BigShow
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

They'll never become the norm. Human beings are still vastly superior in every way. But that's irrelevant, how much do councils and the government make each year from speeding drivers and parking fines etc? You really think they are going to give up that cash cow?
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigShow wrote:
They'll never become the norm. Human beings are still vastly superior in every way. But that's irrelevant, how much do councils and the government make each year from speeding drivers and parking fines etc? You really think they are going to give up that cash cow?


Humans, are terrible at driving... There's the fact that they're easily distracted, they have limited concentration spans, they require hours of training before they're up to the minimum standard and then years before they're up to average. Even using the pioneering tech that's in test at the moment we can state objectively that Google cars are better than the average driver when measured from the accident per mile point of view.

The one thing that keeps humans in the race so far is that we're much better at interpreting incomplete information.

Don't kid yourself that the parking and speeding are central to the plans... It's the cash rolling in that matters, they'll tax other things more instead.
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nelmo
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
BigShow wrote:
They'll never become the norm. Human beings are still vastly superior in every way. But that's irrelevant, how much do councils and the government make each year from speeding drivers and parking fines etc? You really think they are going to give up that cash cow?


Humans, are terrible at driving... There's the fact that they're easily distracted, they have limited concentration spans, they require hours of training before they're up to the minimum standard and then years before they're up to average. Even using the pioneering tech that's in test at the moment we can state objectively that Google cars are better than the average driver when measured from the accident per mile point of view.

The one thing that keeps humans in the race so far is that we're much better at interpreting incomplete information.

Don't kid yourself that the parking and speeding are central to the plans... It's the cash rolling in that matters, they'll tax other things more instead.


Thumbs Up yup - give it 20 years and our grandkids will be shocked when we tell them we used to control our own cars on the road.

Personally, I can't wait - I'd much rather trust a computer than some tosspot driver who's pissed/old/half-blind/stoned etc.
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monkeybiker
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would good if you didn't own the car and just payed for so many miles kind of like a phone contract.

You just use the next available car. Kind of like a taxi but you don't need paid the driver a wage.

Would save the hassle of parking.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problems are more economic than technical IMO. Self driving vehicles would put a fair chunk of the UK out of work.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

monkeybiker wrote:
I think it would good if you didn't own the car and just payed for so many miles kind of like a phone contract.

You just use the next available car. Kind of like a taxi but you don't need paid the driver a wage.

Would save the hassle of parking.


Only time will tell on that one.

In one way I like the commodity aspect of it, and the efficiency of car sharing... but I'd also like to leave stuff in the car during the day rather than carry it into work and then back into the next car. I'd also like to guarantee I get a car without waiting at rush hour.

I guess it depends on price... Unfortunately, I can't think of anything that isn't ultimately cheaper buying rather than renting.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
The problems are more economic than technical IMO. Self driving vehicles would put a fair chunk of the UK out of work.


There have been many, many technologies that we're going to put everyone out of work. In the long run, all they have done is pushed up the standard of living.

For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-loom_riots

This may be the one thing in history that bucks that trend, but I seriously doubt it...
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

daemonoid wrote:
chris-red wrote:
The problems are more economic than technical IMO. Self driving vehicles would put a fair chunk of the UK out of work.


There have been many, many technologies that we're going to put everyone out of work. In the long run, all they have done is pushed up the standard of living.

For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-loom_riots

This may be the one thing in history that bucks that trend, but I seriously doubt it...

I'm not saying it won't happen...
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we start with Taxi's and Bus's and see how that goes first?

If a huge Success then I would campaign to extend it to all vehicles that have four circles on the grille or a Quattro because your worth it badge! Wink
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Moo.
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you imagine drunk people herding them? Laughing
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moo. wrote:
Can you imagine drunk people herding them? Laughing


Yes, along with every schoolkid in the land!
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Self driving cars will not catch on. Much the same way we still have air plane pilots.

The reason is liability and insurance.

Think about a car maker their cars are mass produced to the lowest bidder who will most likely cut corners.

It is a bigger question of who is liable when it goes wrong?

Right now the nut behind the wheel is liable, yet if we put an AI in charge, what happens when it goes wrong? Is it the car maker or the individual?

The opt out / easy method is to still make the 'operator' liable. Will the 'operator' have to be awake at all times and focusing on the road for when something goes wrong?

Because if so then although it may well self drive the fact it needs to be constantly monitored kinda negates a large part of its autonomy. I mean computers never go wrong right?


Kind of like air planes no doubt the 777 or Airbus can take off and land without the pilot doing anything after setting the program but they are there for redundancy as stuff goes wrong.
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Jim Mc
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon they'll be on the roads within a decade. Google have been really pushing it and they have the money to make it happen.

Contrary to some opinion here I think they'll be super popular. No more dealing with arsehole taxi drivers. No worrying about how tired you're going to be driving to the opposite end of the country for bidness.
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMICTYDCBTVPOWOISPMPIAPAHBLWIFHPTMDNL


Sorry Mate I Calculated That Your Death Caused By This Vehicle Pulling Out Would Only Inconvenience Six People. My Passenger Is A Pilot And Him Being Late Would Inconvenience Five Hundred People. The Mathematics Does Not Lie.


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mailee
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Computerised self drive cars powered by windows.....where would you like to crash today! Shocked Laughing
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
Self driving cars will not catch on. Much the same way we still have air plane pilots.

The reason is liability and insurance.

Think about a car maker their cars are mass produced to the lowest bidder who will most likely cut corners.

It is a bigger question of who is liable when it goes wrong?

Right now the nut behind the wheel is liable, yet if we put an AI in charge, what happens when it goes wrong? Is it the car maker or the individual?

The opt out / easy method is to still make the 'operator' liable. Will the 'operator' have to be awake at all times and focusing on the road for when something goes wrong?

Because if so then although it may well self drive the fact it needs to be constantly monitored kinda negates a large part of its autonomy. I mean computers never go wrong right?


Kind of like air planes no doubt the 777 or Airbus can take off and land without the pilot doing anything after setting the program but they are there for redundancy as stuff goes wrong.


Pilots disagree, but hey why stop perpetuating the myth https://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/automation-myths/

"computers never go wrong right?" - that's such a dumb thing to say... Computers do go wrong, but not half as often as people. And that's one of the biggest benefits of driverless cars... Safety...

The liability question is being answered. That was the bbc link. Don't think silly little matters relating to court cases measured in 4-5 figures will end up derailing billion dollar players like Google entering billion dollar industries.

Governments are already beginning to bend over backwards to be in there early.
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Last edited by daemonoid on 22:17 - 11 Feb 2015; edited 1 time in total
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kramdra
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about insurance? the car would need to be insured rather than the person. If this happens, can it be applied to normal vehicles. I think it'd be better.

Self driving bike could be interesting Laughing

Safety. Anything can be safe if its slow enough. These self driving cars will be slow. Think how much hesitation a learner or granny has at a simple junction, multiply by 1000. Once moving, Im sure they will do the speed limit on motorway, but I predict a major blockage of B roads Sad Will the owner be able to set the speed above the speed limit? what if the speed limit changes which they keep talking about.
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monkeybiker
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 11 Feb 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

kramdra wrote:
What about insurance? the car would need to be insured rather than the person. If this happens, can it be applied to normal vehicles. I think it'd be better.

Self driving bike could be interesting Laughing

Safety. Anything can be safe if its slow enough. These self driving cars will be slow. Think how much hesitation a learner or granny has at a simple junction, multiply by 1000. Once moving, Im sure they will do the speed limit on motorway, but I predict a major blockage of B roads Sad Will the owner be able to set the speed above the speed limit? what if the speed limit changes which they keep talking about.


Don't really understand what you are saying here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsnKzK6dX8Q

Why should it be slow?
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