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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 03 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Corporations

https://youtu.be/zpQYsk-8dWg

You may be familiar with this film. Its long but worth sticking with.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 03 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:


Have you never heard the term corporate communism? Maybe you should look into it.


I get the feeling that it's a misuse of the term "communism". I can see why some might like to use it, but it only works so far. It's not really communism.

It's a shame the movie you linked to is so long. If it had been an hour or so I might have watched it, but my interest isn't strong enough to sit through two and a half hours on such a subject!
I read the description, and I am aware of some of the arguments about the power of the big corporations - it's not exactly a hidden thing these days.
We all know there are huge problems with how corporations use their power in politics, so I'm not sure I'd learn anything that would really surprise me anyway. Much more interesting to me would be suggestions of how to reign it in. I want solutions, not problems! Laughing
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 03 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:


I get the feeling that it's a misuse of the term "communism". I can see why some might like to use it, but it only works so far. It's not really communism.

It's a shame the movie you linked to is so long. If it had been an hour or so I might have watched it, but my interest isn't strong enough to sit through two and a half hours on such a subject!
I read the description, and I am aware of some of the arguments about the power of the big corporations - it's not exactly a hidden thing these days.
We all know there are huge problems with how corporations use their power in politics, so I'm not sure I'd learn anything that would really surprise me anyway. Much more interesting to me would be suggestions of how to reign it in. I want solutions, not problems! Laughing


I think the term communism is used to charecterise the way a system which claims to be contentious and competitive and at its core capitalist is in effect acting as a collective cabal. That's not a bad critical discription of political communism so why not regard corporate global power in the same terms.

It's a while since I watched the documentary but i think the salient point is that in the US corporations have been able to legally describe themselves as having the same rights as human beings. In availing the corporation of these human rights the corporation is able to avoid being controlled or scrutinized by government and conferred rights in much the same way human beings can in libertarian terms. Its actually quite creepy.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:02 - 04 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd almost say that corporations have turned it around so that they now control governments, especially in the US. Corporations and the media.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 04 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
I'd almost say that corporations have turned it around so that they now control governments, especially in the US. Corporations and the media.


Exactly. Ive maintained for a long time that it's got so bad especially in the US that you can say that its the corporation that taxes the US worker through withholding wealth created by the worker. Since 1970 the wages of US workers has not risen in line with the profits of business. This shortfall is essentially a tax, the US worker is duped into thinking they live in a low income tax country because the income tax they pay to the government is relatively low. The sinister thing is that you can say that power lays with where tax goes. So not only does the corporation have power, it is the power, it essentially subverts democracy in a country we are told is the leading democracy in the world. I would say that all that money from the US government to bail out the banks shouldn't be looked at as a bailout but actually as tax being rendered, IE the corporation is Ceasar. This is why we should be so concerned that we have an operator like Rishi Sunak in No 11. These creeps are as happy to sell our country out for a few quid as any oxbridge spy in the fifties.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 04 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting. The corporations dictate the government's tax take by fixing wages Thinking There are other variables though like minimum wage and the government's ability to set the rate on wages, capital gains and corporation tax. But when you can bypass the electorate with highly paid lobbyists I don't suppose it's an issue.

Are national governments rubbish due to natural stagnation and corruption arising from a stable society or through corporate steering?
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 04 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
I'd almost say that corporations have turned it around so that they now control governments, especially in the US. Corporations and the media.


Exactly. Ive maintained for a long time that it's got so bad especially in the US that you can say that its the corporation that taxes the US worker through withholding wealth created by the worker. Since 1970 the wages of US workers has not risen in line with the profits of business. This shortfall is essentially a tax, the US worker is duped into thinking they live in a low income tax country because the income tax they pay to the government is relatively low. The sinister thing is that you can say that power lays with where tax goes. So not only does the corporation have power, it is the power, it essentially subverts democracy in a country we are told is the leading democracy in the world. I would say that all that money from the US government to bail out the banks shouldn't be looked at as a bailout but actually as tax being rendered, IE the corporation is Ceasar. This is why we should be so concerned that we have an operator like Rishi Sunak in No 11. These creeps are as happy to sell our country out for a few quid as any oxbridge spy in the fifties.




Suprisingly, the rich getting richer under a supposedly egalitarian Labour government came after the poor had got richer under Margaret Thatcher's Conservatives.

But who are these wealthy people, where does the country's income come from and where do you fit in among the rich and poor? We delve into the report.

What has happened?

Labour's years in power have brought a big boost to the fortunes of the wealthy.

After watching their share of the pot fall since the end of the industrial era, the richest people in the country have now got a greater share of the national wealth than at any time in the past three decades.

The Office of National Statistics Social Trends report shows that the top 1% of the population control 23% of the country's cash, property and assets.

And the gap between rich and poor is stark...

The report has revealed that the poorest tenth of the country had a net wealth below zero between 2006 and 2008, with -£500 to their names after debts were subtracted from their physical and pension wealth. And they are likely to be even worse off now, as people saw the value of their earnings and assets fall by 15% in the recession year of 2008.

Meanwhile, the richest tenth of the country have total average wealth of £3,954,900 - although this is small beer compared to the riches of the super wealthy that the government has been criticised for courting.

The Social Trends report showed that the share of the wealth owned by the wealthiest 1% of the population declined steadily for nearly 90 years, falling to a low of 18% in the early to mid-1990s. But after this their share increased and this continued when Tony Blair became Prime Minister, with Gordon Brown as Chancellor.

The report said: 'Over the 20th century the distribution of wealth in the UK became more equal. Since the beginning of the 1990s the distribution appears to have widened again.'

Fall And Rise Of The Mega-Wealthy

How the wealthy lost and won

The ONS figures show that the top 1% owned 70% of the UK's wealth in the years before the First World War. But this heyday soon ended. The mobilisation of the middle and lower classes, economic disruption and the break-up of old landed wealth saw this fall to 42% of national assets by 1960 - the era of never-had-it-so-good and the birth of a consumer economy. By the late 1970s, their share was 22% and this continued to fall through the Thatcher era.

Thatcher's reforms of the 1980s benefited the middle classes - and the increase in home ownership saw those lower down the scale boost their share of wealth. By the second half of the 1980s, the share of the national wealth owned by the top 1% fell to below 18%.

This changed in the early to mid-1990s and the bounce back by the wealthy was not stemmed by the New Labour team of Blair and Brown. By 2003, the top 1%'s share was 23%, and the Government was actively courting the wealthy to the UK, encouraging a boom in the City and tempting rich foreign businessmen to the country.

This led to controversy surrounding the Government's relationship with businessmen and bankers. It also brought public anger at the failure to control the reckless banking practices that eventually brought on the financial crisis at a time when Mr Brown boasted of London as the world's finance centre.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1692295/How-the-rich-got-richer-under-Labour.html

It's the Tory. Focus on the Tory!

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Show me your internet search history, phone call and text list. All information for the past 6 months. Hand over all your passwords and encryption keys so we know you haven't done anything wrong. It's for your own good and for the safety of the children! Liar Liar Liar

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 15:43 - 04 May 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
"Thatcher's reforms of the 1980s benefited the middle classes - and the increase in home ownership saw those lower down the scale boost their share of wealth. By the second half of the 1980s, the share of the national wealth owned by the top 1% fell to below 18%."

All getting taken back now though, as it was destined to be. I think the actions of Thatch and co were primarily to split the middle-class workers and working class workers apart. This was able done with no little help from Scargill and Co. The neo-libs were never going to let the newly minted middle hold onto the gains though.

Of course Blair's a neo-lib plant. If the Tories had stayed in power after 97 not much would have been different except a bit less public spending. They still would have de regulated the financial markets and over blown the lending sector. I suspect austerity would just have come sooner and labelled differently. Whatever, the drive towards a high tech version of victorian britain would have continued all to plan. The wealth pump would continue to stroke with any waxing and waning of the economy and we know which way the money would flow.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 19:58 - 10 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rwanda asylum plan: UK court allows flight planned for Tuesday - A little suprising, although as arry pointed out it doesn't look like one way traffic, and I can see why the Tories would love to swap undocumented for documented. Also... 'There will be a full judicial review of the policy before the end of July, the court heard'.

arry wrote:
UK have signed up to take in Rwanda's most vulnerable refugees who are, by the way, booked on the return flights Thumbs Up

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/memorandum-of-understanding-mou-between-the-uk-and-rwanda/memorandum-of-understanding-between-the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-of-great-britain-and-northern-ireland-and-the-government-of-the-republic-of-r#part-1--transfer-arrangments

Quote:
16 Resettlement of vulnerable Refugees
16.1 The Participants will make arrangements for the United Kingdom to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom, recognising both Participants’ commitment towards providing better international protection for refugees.



So we swap our fighting age males for cripples, sicknotes n biddies.

It is amazing how this stuff doesn't get mentioned in the press, isn't it Laughing
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 10 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:
Rwanda asylum plan: UK court allows flight planned for Tuesday

I'll believe it when I see it.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
The thing that amazes me is that any working Brit knows that any legal help (including moving house) costs £thousands and takes ages. BUT for this lot a crack legal team leaps into action within hours.

I'm not sure who's paying for them either. I'm guessing not the dingyfairers, as they'll have used up their last £18 grand on paying the people traffickers
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 15:35 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
The thing that amazes me is that any working Brit knows that any legal help (including moving house) costs £thousands and takes ages. BUT for this lot a crack legal team leaps into action within hours.

I'm not sure who's paying for them either. I'm guessing not the dingyfairers, as they'll have used up their last £18 grand on paying the people traffickers


Normally it's woke lawyers working pro bono and the court fees are paid by a shell company set up and funded by donations so that if anything goes against them they can fold the company without personal liabilities.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 16:35 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
I'm not sure who's paying for them either. I'm guessing not the dingyfairers, as they'll have used up their last £18 grand on paying the people traffickers

Interesting question. Taking the Detention Action charity as an example, obviously it’s heavily politicised in its implementation, but the annual report shows that funding comes mainly from funds bequeathed to several philanthropic trusts. For example,

Arrow Oak Foundation. The resources of Oak Foundation originated from an interest in the Duty Free Shoppers business which Alan Parker helped to build. Today, the Foundation comprises a group of philanthropic organisations based in various countries around the world.

Arrow Tolkien Trust. The Tolkien Trust is a UK registered charity. It was established in 1977 by the four children of the author, J.R.R. Tolkien, to enable the Tolkien family to give regularly to its chosen charitable causes.

Arrow Paul Hamlyn Foundation. Paul Hamlyn (1926-2001) was an entrepreneurial publisher and philanthropist. Paul Hamlyn Foundation was established by Paul Hamlyn in 1987. He died in 2001 and left most of his estate to the Foundation, creating one of the largest independent grant-making foundations in the UK.

Arrow Trust For London. Our assets derive from the philanthropy of the people of London over many years. Over the centuries the 112 parishes within the City of London received around 1,400 separate charitable gifts and bequests. Their income was to be used for the benefit of the church communities or, more often, the poor of those parishes.

Arrow Esmeralda Fairbairn Foundation. In 1961 Ian Fairbairn, a leading City figure, decided to endow a charitable foundation with the bulk of his holdings in the company he had joined some 30 years before, M&G. He also wanted to establish a memorial to his wife, Esmée, who had played a prominent role in developing the Women’s Royal Voluntary Service and the Citizens Advice Bureau. She was killed in an air raid during the Second World War.

Arrow Barrow Cadbury Trust. The Trust is the largest of the several dozen Cadbury family foundations. Our history goes back more than 100 years. The Trust has had a focus on social justice and equality issues from the beginning.

Of course we don’t know whether rather originators of those foundations would have supported the current actions.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I see room for some new laws and regulations on who can fund legal action and for what purposes. Perhaps direct interests should have to be shown, or something along those lines.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I watched Question Time last week (from Surrey) and the housing question came up.

I'm disappointed because the whole panel think the solution is to 'Build more houses'. But is this really the solution?

Will this really bring house prices down to affordable levels or just make some people even richer?

What about the infrastructure? More houses need Schools, Roads, Hospitals, etc. etc.

We have to do something about the number coming into the country as I don't see the above as viable. Also, we should tax people (higher stamp duty?) who own more than one house.

I personally think everyone in this country should have the chance to own their own house. OK to those who disagree, but rent is getting just as bad. £7,000 a month for a flat in London? OK....

Government says "But.. But... we've got rid of Stamp Duty for first time buyers below £300k"
Where can you find property in Surrey for less than £300k ???

Don't get me wrong, Labour are just as bad. In my mind the whole stupid house price shit started post year 2000. Guess who was PM then?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Time for a round of "Let's Play the Blame Game" and for this thread your choices are:

Tony Blair
George Soros
Bill Gates
The World Economic Forum
The French

Wink
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can you add Val to that list please.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 15 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
£7,000 a month for a flat in London? OK....

Where can you find property in Surrey for less than £300k ???



London? Surrey? Meh.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 01:54 - 16 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I bought my house for one reason. I own it. I don't pay a penny (now)
to live in it. It's the biggest safety net going.

No other reason.

To expand on that a bit..................

People seem happy to rent nowadays rather than buy. I don't think they look far enough in the fututre. Even if you have a large pension all planned, you will still have to pay rent and that will be a lot higher than now.

If you have a decent pension, plus the state pension, yoou won't get any help from the state so you are going to be hemorrhaging money with no prospects of it getting better.

If you don't own your own place, spend every penny you have before retirement so you can apply for every pension credit and government handout you can.

My view anyway.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 16 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Remember this story from last week?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/11/protesters-block-immigration-officers-van-during-peckham-arrest

protesters blocked a van transporting a Nigerian Man and ultimately won out.

What the Guardian didn't expand on was who exactly this individual was:

'Jailed: Olaoluwa Ibrahim
By Rachel Blundy
28 July 2015
A rapist has been jailed for eight and a half years after he attacked a woman in the street as she travelled home from a night out with friends.
Olaoluwa Ibrahim, 38, approached his victim, who he did not know, as she got off a night bus in Maida Vale after spending the evening in central London.
He tried to start a conversation with her but she ignored him and carried on walking home, the Old Bailey heard.
But Ibrahim grabbed her and pushed her into a driveway where he raped her before stealing her phone and running away in the early hours of June 24 last year.
Ibrahim, of Relf Road, Peckham, admitted rape and theft at the Old Bailey today

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/rapist-jailed-for-attacking-woman-in-maida-vale-as-she-travelled-home-from-night-out-10422496.html
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:30 - 16 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is there any solid evidence of that? It seems a bit odd, because it says the guy was released? I can't see that happening for a convicted rapist having done less than a 7 stretch but anything's possible these days.


I looked at the BBC website as Guardian hates me.

Quote:
One of the protesters, Eleanor Janega, said people had heard of an "immigration raid" and came to demonstrate.

"We had been sitting here blocking the van and having ice lollies. They brought more police in and tried to break through the crowd by pushing us. We all sat down."


She's from LSE and is an absolute nutcase as you'd expect:
https://going-medieval.com/2022/06/10/on-conflating-drag-and-femininity-with-sexuality/

Quote:
This week in Texas, America’s Most Normal State(™) one brave lawmaker has sprung into action to protect children. Don’t worry though, he didn’t decide that he was gonna, you know, do anything about the epidemic of violent white supremacy and the violence that easy access to guns for radicalised people can unleash on classrooms full of innocent school children. Oh no. The brave Bryan Slaton has elected, instead, to introduce a ban on allowing children to attend drag shows. Here is the brave brave little guy’s announcement:

This incredibly stupid move has come after cute lil’ pictures of kids having a nice time at a drag show at an ice cream parlor have emerged. Confronted with images of people having fun, Bryan here thought “Oh no, people are having a nice time! We cannot allow this.” He then decided to act because, according to his above statement, the issue is that drag shows, in general, are a run by “perverted adults” who are “sexualizing young children”.

As many people have pointed out, this is absolutely bonkers, but today I thought I would write a bit about the historical precedent that this kneejerk and absolutely hypocritical view blooms from.





https://going-medieval.com/author/goingmedievalblog/
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 16 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
"The far right have found a 2015 article about a man imprisoned for horrific sex crimes. They claim he's the man who was detained in Peckham yesterday.

He's not. Different name, age and address. They just happen to both be Nigerian.

This government's policies promote racism."

https://twitter.com/mcash/status/1536055221675343873

They don't say who he is though.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 16 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
If he's a rapist so much the better! George Floyd is in line for canonisation despite being a drug addled criminal with no redeeming qualities.

Repressive tolerance. It's what you voted for.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 16 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Drug addled because American pharma was peddling opiates for normal painkilling purposes
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 16 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Drug addled because American pharma was peddling opiates for normal painkilling purposes


What drugs was Floyd using?
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 1 year, 312 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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