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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 08:49 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Of course, what we really mean is migrant Labour voters. Half the reason the floodgates were opened by Mr Blair


Yeah, what a right wing neo liberal twat.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

Err you realise Blair massively increased immigration from the rest of the world, something we could have controlled?

https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/Net_migration_by_nationality.png

^ red line shoots up with Blair being elected in '97, blue line with Poland joining the EU in '04, which I believe even that could have been restricted initially as Germany did so.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I read the headline I got the impression Labour had shifted Far Right Shocked And there's me thinking "Labour - The Party of White Supremacy" was just a mem Smile

Even after reading the article one could still place Labour further Right than the Tories if you take Labour at their word and the Tories by their actions.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starmer just wants to get elected that's all, it's why like Blair he's more dangerous than your Corbyns, who tell you exactly what they plan to do allowing the electorate to well... General election 2019: 'Worst night for Labour since 1935'
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:52 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Limiting immigration is a socialist principle because it keeps wages high. The tories, however, want wages kept down but they'll never admit wanting more immigration because it will put off their core gammon voters.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:03 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

They'll all do about the same thing when it comes to the rub. Outside pressures.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Limiting immigration is a socialist principle because it keeps wages high. The tories, however, want wages kept down but they'll never admit wanting more immigration because it will put off their core gammon voters.


I was going to say "how thick do they have to be given the results of the last decade?" but speaking personally the only choice I have in my area is to vote for the Lib-Dems and you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We have to face the facts that in most constituencies it is impossible to vote for anyone to represent you in any meaningful sense Sad The electorate of Richmond, North Yorkshire know exactly what I'm talking about.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


I was going to say "how thick do they have to be given the results of the last decade?" but speaking personally the only choice I have in my area is to vote for the Lib-Dems and you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We have to face the facts that in most constituencies it is impossible to vote for anyone to represent you in any meaningful sense Sad The electorate of Richmond, North Yorkshire know exactly what I'm talking about.


Reform are saying they'll field 500 candidates at the next GE.
But I wonder if they'll be able to do half the things they say they will anyway. Outside pressures.
Whoever you vote for, from now on all they'll be doing is fiddling at the edges.
I wonder how many more governments we'll have to go through before people start realising this.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pointless trying it round my way but I'd have a reason to vote Labour at the next election: a promise to reform the House of Lords. I could stand them fucking up the rest of the country if they managed just that one thing as it'd be a good foundation for whoever follows.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Limiting immigration is a socialist principle because it keeps wages high. The tories, however, want wages kept down but they'll never admit wanting more immigration because it will put off their core gammon voters.

Meanwhile in the real world...

'On its final day, Labour conference has approved a radical policy motion advocating the extension of free movement, the closure of all detention centres'

The Tories do indeed want mass immigration but they want it by the book, hence their focus on 'illegal' immigration, and why boat migrants (spending 2.5 billion a year housing them) are particularly bad.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 22 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Pointless trying it round my way but I'd have a reason to vote Labour at the next election: a promise to reform the House of Lords.


Irrelevant.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:39 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
Pointless trying it round my way but I'd have a reason to vote Labour at the next election: a promise to reform the House of Lords.


Irrelevant.


Exactly. If the House of Lords were more relevant maybe the government wouldn't have gotten away with fucking up the country for the last 12 years. Checks and balances.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 02:18 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the HoL can be made relevant when the HoC is becoming less so as far as ordinary people are concerned. I think the 'checks and balances' come from outside now, Brexit or no Brexit. Nor will voting Labour change that in any meaningful way. Voting itself may now be an irrelevance as far as the macro in politics goes.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 09:27 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes Just say “WEF” and get it over with, you conspiracy believer you. Laughing
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Voting itself may now be an irrelevance as far as the macro in politics goes.


Been like that for at least 30 years. Plenty of towns in the north of the UK struggled with global developments - as newly industrialised countries came on line and started to do what they did, but for a fraction of the cost. Doesn't really make that much difference where you put your 'X' on the ballot paper when a multi-national corporation is calling the shots, threatening to relocate if the majority of the electorate votes for more workers' rights (e.g. improved health and safety etc.).

An interesting example of that in my own town was Michelin. A big employer. They fvcked off in the mid '90s iirc - funnily enough, just as instances of bladder cancer amongst workers from the wire shop started to crop up.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 23 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Rolling Eyes Just say “WEF” and get it over with, you conspiracy believer you. Laughing


That's another one of your obsessions, not mine.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If our Government is working on the assumption that we don't need any migrants or refugees and that all immigration is bad, instead of paying the French millions to keep letting them cross, why not pay London youths to live on French beaches and to stab the inflatable boats before they set off?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:37 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
If our Government is working on the assumption that we don't need any migrants or refugees and that all immigration is bad...

Eh? What gave you that idea?

UK sees highest net migration since Second World War - 'An estimated 504,000 more people came to the UK than left last year, according to Office for National Statistic figures.'
^boat migrants aren't included in those figures apparently

M.C. wrote:
The Tories do indeed want mass immigration but they want it by the book, hence their focus on 'illegal' immigration, and why boat migrants (spending 2.5 billion a year housing them) are particularly bad.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What gave you that idea?


I don't know what to believe, so I go by the fact that our Government persuaded a proportion of our electorate to vote for Brexit by spinning the lie that it would keep Johnny Foreigner out. Funny how things turn out....
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
I don't know what to believe, so I go by the fact that our Government persuaded a proportion of our electorate to vote for Brexit by spinning the lie that it would keep Johnny Foreigner out. Funny how things turn out....

Are you being serious?

https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/570544382e0000640095097a.png?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 16:05 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and look what happened to Cameron and May. If I recall it was BoJo and Gove that did the persuading, and it became BoJo's Government.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and now it is Sunak's Government. Remind me how he voted?
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
...and look what happened to Cameron and May. If I recall it was BoJo and Gove that did the persuading, and it became BoJo's Government.

Cameron resigned cos he realised he had f**ked up. May showed she had no idea how to hold a negotiating position (or run an election campaign). If you remember Bojo was on the fence with what side to back, and took a political gamble which ultimately paid off, even if he did go on to totally f**k it up.

None of that changes your statement being inaccurate, the government wanted us to remain in the EU, they spent £9 million sending a leaflet to everyone's house telling us so Rolling Eyes

Diggs wrote:
...and now it is Sunak's Government. Remind me how he voted?

And Liz Truss was a remainer? So we've had 3 remainers and 2 brexiteers out of the last 5 PM's.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Diggs wrote:
I don't know what to believe, so I go by the fact that our Government persuaded a proportion of our electorate to vote for Brexit by spinning the lie that it would keep Johnny Foreigner out. Funny how things turn out....

Are you being serious?


Sadly, I think he is.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 24 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liz Truss did vote remain, but made it quite clear before the Party faithful voted her in as PM that she had since changed her mind. That swings it to 3 brexit supporters and 2 remainers as PM. In terms of time in office since the vote, we have had remainer PMs from June 2016 to June 2019, i.e. 3 years. We have had brexit supporters ever since, i.e. 3 years, 5 months and counting...

Apologies - the way I put it in my earlier post was inaccurate, but you get my drift...
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