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The French are at it again

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Marmalade
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PostPosted: 06:37 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: The French are at it again Reply with quote

The french have passed a law making it mandatory for all bikes, trikes and quads to carry a high vis vest from 1st jan 2016.
Vests have to be carried for rider and any passenger and it must be within easy reach and worn in case of breakdown or accident.

It is only 11 euros fine for not having a vest but, if you are stopped on the roadside broken down and don't have one, it's 135 euros fine.

The FFMC are as always, on the case and i expect there will be more large scale protests in Paris coming up soon.

The wearing of headphones is a 135 euro fine as well, carrying a phone in hand is the same fine and and 3 points off your licence, obviously the points only applies if you have a french licence.
bluetooth kits are ok.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 07:00 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

They will be fining for wearing earplugs next. Thumbs Down
Les voleurs.
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bugeye_bob
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PostPosted: 07:03 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it just brings bikes into line with their car policies with regards to Hi Viz vests.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 07:21 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ Still all a bit over the top isn't it?
They are different classes of vehicle though aren't they so different rules for either type isn't an
inconceivable notion? Would you be okay if they said we had to carry a spare wheel and a hazard
triangle as well? After all it just brings bikes into line with their car policy. They'll have us putting those
god awful reflective ugly stickers all over our bikes next.
Is it just me who thinks all this fine money pays for La police française fête de noël Thinking

Side question, Can you acquire points on a UK licence in France then?
I honestly thought all they
could do (and do do Embarassed ) was fine UK citizens...

Edit spare wheels aren't compulsory apparently, just asked my neighbour who takes his caravan over there
regularly. As they say over there, Quelle surprise.
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Last edited by grr666 on 07:29 - 14 May 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 07:25 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

bugeye_bob wrote:
So it just brings bikes into line with their car policies with regards to Hi Viz vests.

Cars generally have copious storage capacity though, and their definition of "easy reach" for cars means without leaving the driver's seat. On bike, what do? No, not every bike has space under the seat.

Once they've got everyone carrying one, it's just a short slippery slope to saying "It wears the hi-vis on its ride or else it gets le fine again."

No panic now, but if the Huns start making similar noises, be concerned. Especially if our main representation in Brussels is MAG. Pale
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grr666
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PostPosted: 07:52 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just reading up on this, apparently the requirement to wear reflective gear has been abolished in 2013?
No mention of helmet stickers though, so I expect they still have to be worn.
Failure to have a breathalyser with you doesn't come with a compulsory fine anymore. The 11 euro fine has been
'indefinitely postponed'.

https://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/overseas/driving-abroad-whats-new-2012.html

The new bunch of laws are because of an 'unacceptable' amount of deaths of cyclists, moped riders and pedestrians.
(all groups with zero instruction/training on road use then Thinking)
God forbid they should
a. Stop 14 year olds riding mopeds.
b. Introduce compulsory cycling proficiency training.
c. Fine jaywalkers.
One again the needs of the few hinder the many, I'm surprised that's the way it works over there tbh. I'd expect
that kind of legislation over here because kittens.
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 08:53 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the French bureaucrats:

https://www.quickmeme.com/img/7f/7f0a3cc887aaba0f5f8a9210f3cbcd97a969861fe5498e1b8c51f361e6c7981c.jpg
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Re: The French are at it again Reply with quote

Marmalade wrote:
The french have passed a law making it mandatory for all bikes, trikes and quads to carry a high vis vest from 1st jan 2016.
Vests have to be carried for rider and any passenger and it must be within easy reach and worn in case of breakdown or accident.


How ridiculous, wait a minute, it's already been declared mandatory in Czech republic and other countries, from top of my head, Slovakia (I ride there every now and then so I know). I have never used it though, well not the way they meant me to use it.

The vest is cheap, does not take much of space and will possibly save your life one day. No one forces you to wear it, my vest covers my tools in the under seat compartment. Thumbs Up

What is/was ridiculous, that you had to carry a spare bulb (one from each on your motorcycle) with you here. They repealed the law 4 or 5 years ago, because the bulbs never last long in the underseat compartment. So, the moment you were in need of one, you had an under seat compartment full of spare and mostly broken bulbs. You still have to carry spare bulbs in your car through.
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JamesE90
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

N cee thirty wrote:
Frances economy is on it's arse because of the socialist government in charge, so they will probably be bringing in alot more of these petty fines to try and balance the books


France's socialist government has seen its growth overtake ours. Meanwhile we wait for our wonderful new leaders to work out how best to cut things for us poor folk while lining their friends' pockets...

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/may/13/eurozone-gdp-french-economy-smashes-expectations-growth
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Re: The French are at it again Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
The vest is cheap

But freedom isn't free.

RhynoCZ wrote:
does not take much of space

Have you looked under the seat of, for example, an ER6?

RhynoCZ wrote:
and will possibly save your life one day

The same could be said of lion repellent.

RhynoCZ wrote:
No one forces you to wear it

Yet.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Re: The French are at it again Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

Have you looked under the seat of, for example, an ER6?

I've got a fair bit under mine but there's nowhere to safely keep bulbs as well.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are being a bit melodramatic here Roger. Smile

It's not that long ago, people were this passionate about the helmet laws and I am still surprised, there's no minimal standard of mandatory motorcycle protective gear, at least for the L plates and lower categories of the licenses.

Anyway, an alternative to the hi-vis vest could be the hi-vis harness, for instance. It does the same thing, yet it takes less space, for those that can't fit a thing under their seats. Or they could force the manufacturers of motorcycle jackets, to put some hi-vis/reflective elements onto them. There's so many options, and some reflective materials are completely transparent at the day light. Thumbs Up

For you Roger: https://youtu.be/BVkTmnJkAN8?t=40s Laughing
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
I think you are being a bit melodramatic here Roger. Smile

That's exactly what Hitler would say.
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
I think you are being a bit melodramatic here Roger. Smile


Melodramatic!

Human rights are at stake here. This is just the thin end of the (stinky French cheese) wedge. What next?
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt B wrote:
RhynoCZ wrote:
I think you are being a bit melodramatic here Roger. Smile


Melodramatic!

Human rights are at stake here. This is just the thin end of the (stinky French cheese) wedge. What next?


The EU (it's members) has got positive obligation to protect health and lives of its citizens. In other words, in this instance, making our roads a safer place. Thumbs Up
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
RhynoCZ wrote:
I think you are being a bit melodramatic here Roger. Smile

That's exactly what Hitler would say.


That would be more like...
"Achtung! sie melodramatisch Roger! DIE! DIE! DIE! ...Anybody want to take a walk to the showers?"
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
The EU (it's members) has got positive obligation to protect health and lives of its citizens. In other words, in this instance, making our roads a safer place. Thumbs Up

Motorcycles are incompatible with Vision Zero. Be careful what you wish for.
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barrkel
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
The EU (it's members) has got positive obligation to protect health and lives of its citizens.

That doesn't sound right to me at all. Many, if not most, freedoms negatively affect health, whether in absolute or probabilistic sense. And life is finite and terminal, with ever escalating costs to add ever reducing slivers of time at the end, when life quality is at its lowest.

The "positive obligation" you put forward is an argument against the freedom to drive, to drink, to have sex, to skydive, to fly, to partake in any activity with any chance of negative health impact or probability of death. It is illiberal and anti-freedom. It's an obligation whose ultimate logic would have you bedridden from birth to grave, interacting with the world through an electronic condom and living on a carefully composed intravenous drip.

Further, I take exception to the idea at the core of it; that there is a benevolent government. There is no benevolent collection of people so large as to be called a government. Governments are machines made out of human cogs for enacting will through force. We rely on them to enforce a social contract, for the rule of law, but they are made to stop the worst amongst us taking too much advantage. In world of enlightened people, governments wouldn't be needed.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 21:30 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

barrkel wrote:
...freedoms negatively affect health... In world of enlightened people, governments wouldn't be needed.


That's the thing, the hole nation/s is/are not enlightened. There are stupid people and the vast majority of them is also reckless.

I think it was this forum where I said, that there was no such a thing as freedom in our civilized society. There are just rules of the game we all play every single day on our pitches.

Many freedoms do negatively affect health of people, and every time we analyze each one of them, we have to consider the social dangerousness of such behaviour. Basically, if everyone took drugs, we'd make it illegal to get high. But what's the harm for the society here? Do we really want to put people in jail for being high? - That's what 'murica does the best, by the way.
It is very dangerous for the society to produce, sell and/or distribute drugs, or being high while driving, so the society agreed on making it illegal to do so.

Rogerborg wrote:
Motorcycles are incompatible with Vision Zero. Be careful what you wish for.


Do you mean this: https://www.visionzeroinitiative.com/ ?
I don't say let's ban motorcycles, but I do think that there should be a mandatory minimum standard of protective motorcycle gear, that you shall wear when you're on a motorcycle. The helmet is just not enough and most of the low speed accidents have unnecessarily worse aftermath, just because the rider was only wearing a pair of flip flops and shorts.
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Commuter_Tim
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 14 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
The helmet is just not enough and most of the low speed accidents have unnecessarily worse aftermath, just because the rider was only wearing a pair of flip flops and shorts.


I find it hard to believe there has been many fatalities through skin loss in Motorcycle accidents.
So that being said, why do you mind if some idiot loses some skin? Confused

Protecting people from potatoing themselves and others helps prevent society falling apart.
Protecting some dickhead from extremely large amounts of pain due to their own ignorance is not logical.
Losing skin doesn't make them much less productive a member of society, just a stupider one.
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deadwolf
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PostPosted: 02:44 - 15 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as it's pretty hard/nigh impossible to have a high vis vest within easy reach on a bike, I guess this is the only option for us two-wheelers:

https://i.imgur.com/cejmZHo.png
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grr666
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PostPosted: 06:33 - 15 May 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
or being high while driving,


It's far far far worse to be impaired by alcohol, yet that's freely available almost everywhere, including motorway service stations Question
https://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence

Study wrote:
Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments. Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the formers users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence.”

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dydey90
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PostPosted: 13:17 - 15 May 2015    Post subject: Re: The French are at it again Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:

Have you looked under the seat of, for example, an ER6?

I've got a fair bit under mine but there's nowhere to safely keep bulbs as well.


There must be been some major changes in the 2012 facelift then. I just about managed to fold up and squeeze in my restriction certificate and force it shut. Never dared to use the helmet hanger cable for fear of not being able to get it shut again when it's so full.
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