Lowering front and rear Honda CG 125 M1 (ratty/cafe recer)

Notquitesure · L Plate Warrior Joined: 19 Jun 2015 Karma :

Recently brought a Banged up 2001 Honda CG 125 M1 for a Ratty/Cafe racer project (my millennium falcon). I want to lower the bike. I notice cafe racers have a real low profile.

Which progressive suspension kit can I buy to match as I can't seem to find one for CG 125 or could you please suggest front ends I can buy from different models to match.

I have early stages of motor neuron disease. Building a motorcycles is on my bucket list. So let's make it a badass bike.

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

Notquitesure · L Plate Warrior Joined: 19 Jun 2015 Karma :

Replacing the rear shocks and a spring seat. I was already/kind of thinking along those lines.. I want the tail end like a scrambler the mug Guard attached to the u-bar(don't know what it called). I would really like the triple tree flat if possible but if dropping forks through the yokes is the only. So by it.

I want a spring saddle seat also.

is it possible to attach the ignition to the back of the seat?

Does the ignition and battery have to be a certain distance apart?

I brought it for a £190. Plus I want to try and do all work my self. Learning along the way. If i fuck up it was only £190.

Notquitesure · L Plate Warrior Joined: 19 Jun 2015 Karma :

My neighbour is a qualified welder(free).

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Be warned, CGs don't have fantastic ground clerance to begin with.

Lowering the whole bike will only make this worse. Consider moving the footpegs up too and check the ground clearance with the bike cranked over and forks fully compressed. If the frame/engine strikes the ground and digs in as you go through a compression mid-corner, MND may be the least of your worries.

If you want to lower the front, simplest way is to drop the forks through the yokes a bit.
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Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

Teflon-Mike · tl;dr Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :

Do you want to be able to actually ride the thing?
The CG is a pretty low slung bike to begin with; which is why they have, as standard, particularly tall handlebars.
IF I was muggering with one as a 'cafe' racer... mentioning sprung saddles, implies a bobber or brat-chop rather than cafe-racer, as does talk of scrambler style back mudguards
https://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/triton.jpg
This is a classic 'Cafe-Racer' a Triumph 650 Bonaville engine, in a Norton featherbed frame, affectionately known as a Triton.. Tri for TRIumph, ton for norTON. Frame 'de-lugged' for any unnecessary bracketry; possibly abreviated in the seat rails behind the shock-absorber mounts; fitted with a 'bum-stop' solo seat; rear-set foot-pegs (with remote linkage to the gear-lever); high level exhaust for extra ground clerance, and low 'ace-bars' or clip-on handlebars for the 'racer crouch' riding possition. any extraniouse equipment purged; everything necessary for road lgality made of lightweight aluminium or glass-fibre.
https://malibumotorcycleworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/01-Bobber-008.jpg
This is a 'bobber' or 'bob-tail chopper'; usually created by removing the rear shock-absorbers and making a 'hard-tail' with solid struts, shorter than the shocks to lower the back end, or fabricating a new 'rigid' rear loop or entire frame, so the bike has no rear suspension, ad as little behind the rear wheel as possible, to create a lightweight chopper without massively raked forks lifting the front or needing the head-stock re-angled.
https://www.650motorcycles.com/images/BSAflyer1.jpg
That is a 'street-scrambler'.. an original 1960's BSA factory model, in fact; Cashing in on demand for 'Desert Racers' in the USA, they were a bit of a parts bin special from the factory; they often had the ISDT or 'enduro' as it would now be called, frame, and the bigger road engine; supplied with minimal or no road equipment, like lights, light alloy mudguards, solo 'scrambles' saddle and high-level, usually 'open' exhaust system, the style has been re-invented in the custom world in recent years.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8f/c4/f4/8fc4f4e88f6c1d657a00a82d51ef688d.jpg
That is a BSA B50 'flat-Tracker'... built for American style 'speedway', run on a half mile trotting track, rather than a quarter mile stadium dog-track as in europe; the bikes that raced it evolved around bigger engines, and had gear-boxes, more like european grass-track bikes, that often have a little bit of suspension, but essentially stripped down to the barest essentials for lightness; while the Harley XR45 rear 'fender' has become something of a cliche to the type, and almost the only 'feature' so many bikes described as 'trackers' or 'flat-trackers' in the custom world often share with one!
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/27/58/d0/2758d0cd809b218e6da53f2b45016a41.jpg
Brat-chop... following vogue of the 'avante-guarde' custom world; attempting to avoid the cliche's of the trad cafe or chopper.. blending features from genres, to create something 'alternative' often for its own sake; far too frequently, ignoring function, like, erganomics.... choppers have forward set pegs 'cos if you lean the bike back, thats where its most comfy to put your feet, likewise cafe's have rearset pegs cos if you lean forwards that, too is where its comfiest to put your feet.. but using knobly tyres, and a sprung saddle and ace-bars, without re-locating pegs to suit, you get a 'shitting frog' riding position thats neither comfy nor practical or even 'stylish'.. the result, usually of just taking an old bike and trying to do it all without any original 'concept' and just bolting crap together, rather than engineering something to suit the concept idea......

SO, are we talking, Cafe... Bobber, Flat-Tracker, Street-Scrambler, or the usual abortion of Brat-chop?

I think you probably need to do a lot more rersearch before you try shaping metal, AND get a much better idea of what you want the thing to look like, and how you want it to work, and what you'll have to do to make that happen....

However, back to the plot; if I was trying to make a Cafe-Racer out of a CG125, I'd be probably trying to jack it up, not lower it, to get some extra ground clearance; They are also very short, so fitting low, ace or clip-ons, I would want to shift the seat back as far as possible, and the foot-pegs to suit.. to achieve that and 'blend' style; I'd be looking to shift the tank backwards, or use a linger, slimmer tank similar to 1970's 'tiddler racers', so I'd probably not be 'bobbing' the seat rales, as I'd want them to support the bum-stop seat, similarly pushed rearwards, and adding rear-set loops to put the foot-rests, probably not far from the back axle.

A sprung saddle would not be on the list of things to get... but, if that was an essential ingredient to my concept, a-la 'bobber' then, the spring saddle suits a hard-tail or rigid frame, hinged from the front and sprung on the diagonal rear slanted 'stay-rails' if you fitted one to a sprung frame (and many do) it would be like sitting on a slanting shovel, pointing diagonally from the tank... SO.. suggestion begs a quite serious bit of modding, either chucking the frame away, and welding up a new propper 'rigid' loop, or hacking the original about to make something 'like'.. but cutting int an area between head-stock and suspension mounts, the resultant vehicle would have to be presented for VOSA inspection as a 'radically altered vehicle'.....

Street-Scrambler? Fat plastic fenders are easy enough.. but how do you blend them in with the rest of the concept? Modern dirt bikes with those fenders have them because they also have reletively wide knobly tyres, and very long travel suspension, which at 'normal' ride height chucks mud in a big arc in all directions, so further away its mounted from the tyre, more 'area' it has to cover to catch the mud..... CG has skinny little 2.75 section tyres.. and you cant really go very much wider.. both because the rims are to narrow to take much fatter rubber, but even if you re-built the wheels with wider rims, clerance in teh swing-arm and for the chain and drum-brake wont really let you.. not insurmountable, but again, back to the 'concept' and what you want to achieve and what 'problems' you'll encounter.. fitting a fatter back tyre could involve a new swing arm, which might not impinge on VOSA rad-vehicle rules; but could, if you have to off-set the engine in the frame to get the drive chain to miss it, or could just be bludy expensive, trying to make up a gear-box out-put shaft extension and spacers to get the chain past the tyre...

AND.. you say the thing only cost you £190 so no hurt iof you eff-=up and have to chuck it away.... Word of warning, when ity comes to building 'specials' nothing can be done on the cheap, and the 'donor' bike tends to always end up the cheapest bit of the job.

If you have this on your bucket-list... I would PERSONALLY say back up and re-think.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/1234722_649811568377097_1213390986_n.jpg?oh=f182864b4f45698038ee308a97e7707a&oe=56230C85

THAT is 'Kit' hard-tail chopper. As a 'first build', its a VERY good way to go. Company that makes them, I believe is based in Nottigham? they advertise in Back-Street-Hero's and 100% Biker, that would be good reference material. You get, for around £500, a frame, pre-made to take all the fixtures and fittings from a common donor-bike. That one was based on a Yamaha XJ600 Diversion; add about £300 for the donor bike, you use engine, wheels, tyres, brakes, and forks from, and its possible with a little inginuity to get one of these on the road for 'about' £1000... more realistically I would budget £1500-£2,000, especially if you resort to the custom catalogues for some shiny stuff, like bates headlamps and chrome clocks... BUT, comes with a full set of instructions, and if you buy the back-issues, I think 100% biker serialized a photo-build of one done by a complete first-timer. For the likely cost to actually get a 'custom' bike finished and on the road, for it to be moderately useable, and deliver value from what you spend on it, while keeping the costs down, THAT is probably the least-risk, least cost 'best bet'...

To do 'something' with a cheap heap of scrap off e-bay or wherever.. for a first timer? Trying not just to customise the heap of scrap you have bought, but make it 'work' into the bargain... MOST end up abandoned either because they aren't happening 'on the cheap' OR the problems are getting far too big, and far too many that DO make it to the road; often not complete junkers to begin with, but taxed & tested bikes that some-one starts muggering with, far too often, end up NOT pretty to look at, less reliable than they were to start with, and commonly a genuine 'pain' to ride with mismatched seats, bars and pegs.

Advice? Think long and hard; do more research, and do not kid yourself that a full build custom motorbike, EVEN a more diabolical attempt at a 'brat-chop' is ever going to be 'cheap' or in ANY way 'easy'!

Can be 'fun', BUT... I think, given how little you appear to know, you have a VERY steep learning curve to climb... hence my suggestion to buy a kit-chop, which at least offers a beaten path past the steepest bits!

Alternatively, put the idea of a full on custom build on the back-burner, and as a 'first' project; get a Haynes manual, and follow the instructions to do a 'to the book' show-room standard renovation/restoration on the thing, as a first learning excersise... BUT again, believe me, starting with a £190 bike? By the time you have bought new bearings, seals, gaskets, paint; maybe given it a rebore and a new piston; brake shoes, cables and the stuff you DON'T factor into the job; sand-paper; washing up liquid, de-greaser, cable ties, insulation tape, masking tape, solder, bullet connectors.... the costs quickly mount... and more... padock stands to prop the thing up while you are working, the 'special' socket you'll need to remove the clutch or the head-stock, or the multi-meter you didn't have to start with, etc etc etc...

I'll give you an idea; I do a 'project bike' a year, give or take. To 'do' a typical 'derelict' 125, I reckon it will cost me... and I already have all the tools I need, and the stands and a good store of 'consumeables' as well as a shed load of 'doofer' left over spares from other bikes I can pillage; I reckon that to get a derelict bike, and 'do it up', just to the book as a standard renovation.. It will cost me 'about' £1000.. give or take, and much more give than take, the length of a bit of string... but.. battery? £25, tyres, £70, inner tubes, £20, brake shoes, £20, cables, £40, oil, £20 a gallon, grease £10 a pot, coppa grease £10 a pot... it doesn't take you very long doing just the service items to end up spending more than the bike cost you.. and time! LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of time... even if you know what you are doing, it NEVER happens in a hurry..... and I think you are rather nieve in how 'hard' and 'expensive' a job like this is likely to prove.... all part of the learning, but; that's over to you.
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

Notquitesure · L Plate Warrior Joined: 19 Jun 2015 Karma :

I'm removing the big filter air box (for look not practicality). placing the battery else where. I'll play around until it feel balanced. Cutting the frame for that typical Cafe racer look. I want to grind the front frame bar down a little to a smooth round circular bar. As I mentioned above I want overall the bike to sit quite low as I'm not that tall and I was on my tiptoes. I don't like the flat back end look so I want to build high up with cutting the back frame at a slight angle so that u shaped bar welds on at a slight angle and welding a small mug guard to that to visually give it a flat line running for the bottom of the tank End of the mug guard. The seat is still a mystery to me. Yeah I want the bike lighter. Are they a universal donor for this type of bike?

Notquitesure · L Plate Warrior Joined: 19 Jun 2015 Karma :

Can I grind that bar Down? There a nasty horrible line running down that bar. On YouTube modifications videos and what not. That bars a smooth round bar. It may seem idiotic to ask

Teflon-Mike · tl;dr Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :

Notquitesure · L Plate Warrior Joined: 19 Jun 2015 Karma :

It seems to be sitting very height as my friend hadd a Honda h100 which is around waist height. I could hardly get my leg over cg125. Do I have to pick one type and go for it. I just want to make a good looking bike. I going more for a modern retro vintage today look found in the future. Rusted and dented. It may seem stupid. But thank you for the replies.

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

And it harm no one, bodge what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. Someone had to be first to make and name any of those styles.

I was looking at pictures of customs from some show this week and wondering why nobody has thought to spray on faux rust yet. Laughing

____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

Teflon-Mike · tl;dr Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :

Notquitesure · L Plate Warrior Joined: 19 Jun 2015 Karma :

If you guys don't mind me pestering. I'll take a picture tomorrow and post it. I don't want to alter the shape or change the thickness. There a nasty line running down the front part of the frame I just want to smooth it out. Like rounding the edge of wood.

I won't just cut into anything I joined this forum to ask first.

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

Everyone who made a truly original custom bike ignored all the haters who said it was a bad idea.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

Notquitesure · L Plate Warrior Joined: 19 Jun 2015 Karma :

I'm going to going for it. F the rules. What're you rebelling against, Johnny? Whaddya got ... The Wild One is one of the main reasons I wanted the motorcycle. I couldn't afford a class Triumph. I took what I was giving so I have to work with what I got. Thanks for all the advice. If you could recommend some site that I can purchase good quality stuff I would appreciate it.

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

Johnny wouldn't buy "good quality" stuff. He'd get the roughest eBay tat he could find and then screw it on. With a hammer.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike