Complete Newbie Needs Advice!

[dannyc86]

Hi All.

I've not rode a motorbike since my 50cc Honda moped at 16, (13 years ago) although i did pass my driving test at 17 and have driven frequently since.

However, I am going to be changing job which means a 45 mile commute (90 mile round trip) each day. I was considering doing my CBT and getting a 125cc motorbike to commute on. The roads are all rural, open roads so will probably be able to do 55-65mph most of the journey, with one stretch of dual carriageway lasting about 5 miles. However, i'm not sure if a 125 bike will be able to hold up to that? 500 miles a week is a lot obviously.

My main reason for wanting a 125 is a) i can ride with just a CBT and get used to it befoe going in for my test and b) a bike will have a far superior fuel economy than a car, saving me a fortune in fuel!

I was jus twondering what you guys thought? One of my friends thinks i'd be better doing my test and getting a 250cc as a minimum due to the distance and speeds i'll be doing. I'm not sure going in and doing my motorbike test straight away is a good idea though? I'd rather take an extra 10 mins to get to/from work each day on a 125 bike safely than overstetch myself on anything bigger.

Any advice much appreciated. Thanks

[Tr1gg0R]

I'm in a very similar position to you, got a 125 last week and did cbt on Wednesday, my commute is half the distance of yours with a similar dual carriageway to rural ratio.

I've already found that I want to get my DAS sorted asap. I feel like I'm absolutely ragging the 125 just to keep it above 50, can't be any good for the bike. There's also the danger of commuters in cars trying silly overtakes because you're 'holding them up' - mainly an L plate thing I think.

This will be compounded in shit weather when you're going a little slower round corners etc..

Again, I've literally been riding for 5 days so I may be completely wrong, just sharing my tiny bit of experience!

[bamt]

That is a reasonable commute - I do almost exactly the same, and used it as an excuse to get my bike license (it was either that or change my job, and I like my job!). My initial thought process was just like yours - a 125cc bike doing the best part of 100mpg would save a fortune on fuel (my car averages 24mpg on my commute). I did all the sums, including maintenance, depreciation, training, insurance, clothing etc. - the financial payback period was about 18 months, but I'd also be saving at least 2 hours per day.

I went DAS, and straight onto a Yamaha XJ900S Diversion ("Divvy 900"). That's a 900cc sports tourer, with shaft drive rather than chain (far less routine maintenance, especially in bad weather) and a reasonable fairing to keep the wind and rain off you. Neither of these are to be underestimated on a cold, wet, windy January day.

Before Mrs Bamt got her big bike licence I used her 125 a couple of times for the commute. I absolutely hated it. Not really enough power to keep up on the dual carriageways, getting bullied by cars (even without L plates and being used to holding a good road position) and not having the power to overtake when the roads opened up. The bike was seriously struggling all the time. By comparison, I really enjoyed riding that bike in less demanding conditions - like about town. A 125 is a fun machine, but not one to be doing 90 miles a day on whilst trying to get to work.

I'd go for a proper license, and get a reasonable sized bike that can carry luggage (a top box at absolute minimum, at times having full panniers is great). Look at maintenance schedules too - I'm on 4000 mile oil changes, which is every two months. There's tyres, brakes etc. to keep on top of too, which are all both more critical and much shorter lived than car equivalents. If you are handy with a spanner then none of it is difficult, but if you are paying main dealer servicing then being a high mileage rider gets expensive really quickly.

Do your CBT, and when you are on the road bit try winding it up on a national speed limit section - and look at the speedo as it may seem fast as you are hanging on to an unfamiliar machine, but the speedo will show how the bike is struggling. One other thing to bear in mind though - at this time of year everyone is thinking about getting a bike license, so you may struggle getting theory and mod1/2 test dates. If you are at all serious, get your theory booked now - it's relatively cheap and lasts for a couple of years, and then you won't be held up when you go DAS.

[Teflon-Mike]

The bike will probably cope... whether YOU will is another matter....

I love tiddlers, and speak out loudly and often against the idea that they are 'lesser' creations, 'toy' bikes for kids.... daftly that is probably more true of more big bikes used (guilty mi-lud) solely for leisure riding! 125's are still proper bikes, they have two wheels, and an engine, and even limited to the restricted performance of Learner / A1 licence requirements, they can still go as fast as any other bike is legally allowed to go in this country... and many do, and work for a living, as every day main means of transport...

B-U-T.... 90 miles a day is a chore... that's around three hours on the road a day... it's a long commute, however you try do it... and I have for about 6 months....

It's long haul, when you'd rather still be in bed, or enjoying another cup of coffee, surrounded by other half awake idiots also not looking forward to another day with their nose to the grind-stone.. and when that's over and you are knackered, and stressed and JUST want something to eat, and to fall into bed... you have to do it all over

In a car? Well, another box on the conveyor belt, you can stay warm, and dry and listen to the radio, dum down to the lowest common denominator and practice that Buddhist Meditation 'thing' of letting your body be in one place, whilst your mind is in another.... OR you can sit gnashing on the steering wheel, every-time some idiot does something a bit irritating...... It's STILL going to be a big chunk out of your day, tiring, trying and a general pain in the arse that costs you money.

On a bike? It's still the same distance, and the speed limits are still the same, so the only way you might save much journey time, is by speeding, or filtering.... 125's might not be able to better the upper duel carriageway and motorway speed limit very often.. but then most speed tickets are issued for breaking the lower ones...30's & 40's, where they so love to stick the traps. Filtering? Buys you time for risk. Soon as you step out of the flow and start passing moving vehicles you are 'over-taking', and in an already high hazard environment, on a high risk vehicle.... you are ramping the chances you'll be brought down by an 'idiot', switching lanes, pulling out, doing a U-turn etc etc etc.. and Newbies are the most vulnerable, not knowing where and when they can 'get away with it'.. or getting away with it 99 times out of a hundred, then being shocked when they don't! SO.. a bike, any bike, wont inherently shave many minutes off your journey.. you'll only do that by taking more chances.... to life or licence... A-N-D you ent warm and dry and cozy listening to the radio, having climbed into the box in your work clobber... no... you will have spent five or ten minutes clambering into 'bike gear', before you start the engine, and as long the other end, taking it off again! Togging up and Togging off either end, can actually mean it takes more time by bike, from putting the coffee cup down and picking up your keys, to being at your work-station, on the clock earning your daily crust.

Oh-Kay... so, commuting by bike isn't likely to be as comfy, and it might not save you much if any time... what about the money? ONE HUNDRED Em-Pee-Gee!!!!!!

Yeah... gets a lot of folk exited that does..... don't.

FACT: If you already have a car.. chances are that you could save more on your annual motoring costs, without even changing vehicle, let alone vehicle type.

The Average Car does around 15,ooo miles a year, averaging 35mpg, so costs around £2,5oo a year in fuel.... which is usually about 1/3 to 1/2 of the all in motoring costs. Largest most significant chunk of the all in costs each year, tend to be 'credit-charges' and 'depreciation'. so if you run a newer vehicle bought on finance? Well, you can shave a bludy big chunk of annual overheads by getting an older one 'cash'.. argument that you need 'something reliable' to justify a newer car is usually pretty refutable; added maintenance, you'd have to buy a real money-pit, to spend 'more' on repairs on an older car, as it needed them, than 20% APR on a ten grand finance deal.. while the car is loosing another 15% a year of its purchase price just getting older! In many cases, JUST that, getting rid of the credit and newer vehicle depreciation could save 1/3 of your annual motoring costs, as much as ALL your fuel.

Next up... average car, does 15,ooo miles a year.. average daily commute is around 8-10miles....100 miles a week, 5,000 miles a year... 1/3 the average miles the car does... Best way to save fuel? DON'T DRIVE! 2/3 annual fuel spend, something in the order of £16oo a year, is there to be 'saved' by just NOT using the car when you don't really need to.. Thinking twice about jumping in it to pop out for a pack of fags or a bottle of milk from the 24hr two miles away, or better still, checking your fridge or fag packet before the corner shop you can walk to closes!

And there's STILL more to be saved! average car might do about 35mpg.. BUT... most folk don't get the best ecconomy from them... pump up the tyres and drive it like your granny is in the back, threatening you with her walking stuck if you jolt her arthritic hip!

Measured MPG can vary from as little as half what the book says, to double what the book says, depending on how you drive it.. drive for ecconomy then, you can save a lot of fuel without limiting journeys...

So.. Buying a bike to 'save money'.. well, as I keep telling my daughter and the O/H when they come back from the shop with twelve bottles of Shampoo and conditioner, when they only needed one... "But it was on Offer! Three for two!".. You don't SAVE money by SPENDING money.. you SAVE money by NOT SPENDING money.....

So... you want to buy a bike? How much will that cost? I'm going to say, to give you some chance of reliable daily use, whether you bought a 'tiddler' or a big-bike.. you would have to be in the £15oo+ bracket;
You then need your CBT and or a DAS course, you need basic riding kit, tax, insurance, and maintenence.

Are you keeping the car for 'other journeys' or when the whether is too miserable to commute by bike? If so, ALL that is adding to your all in motoring costs, before you might start seeing any 'saving'...

A 125 can return pretty good MPG, and some can return something around the 100mpg mark..... but, not when being stretched to the limits of thier performance trying to hold 55+ speeds for long periods.. then you are more likely to see something down closer to the 70-80 mark.. 20% straight off the top of the presumed savings you hope for, rather blunts the matter... but THEN... bikes are high maintenence.. little 125's can be relatively undemanding, they dont need a lot of oil, but they do like it frequently, they only have one spark plug, but they do like that changed quite often; they also have a lot more stuff that needs 'attention' and adjusting, like drive chains and clutch cables. Most of its all DIY able, and parts when needed tend to be reasonably 'cheap'... BUT, does need doing, by you, or some-one you pay to do it for you.... and you are talking about cranking up 3 or 4x the usual miles on the thing.. so before you can spend those extra three hours on your working day getting to and from work... you have a morning a week, doing the 'chores' to make sure your bike is 'serviced' and working for you to do it... and more money out of potential 'savings' at the petrol pump.. on a 125 you can find some pretty useful savings... on bigger bikes though, the lesser mpg they return... I get around 50 from my 750, while still 'better' than a car, means that the potential 'savings' are getting smaller, and with added maintenance, which also gets higher / more expensive, means that by the time you are looking at the larger 'commuter twins'.. the sums are getting pretty tight, and you aren't actually likely to see ANY overall saving from using a bike over a car. And remember, bike gear needs maintaining too. Helmets in daily use will only last a year or two; boots wear out; water-proofs loose it. That all has to be factored into the long term running costs.

So.. if the bike is an addition to the car, the 'saving' on fuel, has got an AWFUL lot of added overhead.. cost of the bike, training, kit, before you see any actual REAL saving... and on the margins you have... that could take a few years....

If the bike is instead of the car? Yes, makes it easier; but bikes ent cars, and what happens when you want or need to shift a flat-pack wardrobe, or take your mum to the Denstists or something? You might be saving money on a bike, BUT a lot of that saving is from sacrificing all-round utility value.. which may be fine, if you dont use it much, or if you can borrow a car or hire a van or whatever when needed. so, its still not 'all' saving; and switching to a bike, you have shifted a chunk of 'investment' from something that has intrinsic and recoverable value... you can sell a car.... to stuff that has none... after you have done a CBT course you cant sell your CBT cert! You cant get your money back on a DAS course! So, IF you save money, you might see it starting to return in your pocket savings a bit sooner, but they are still going to have been thinned down from what you might hope for, simply comparing MPG figures.

AND... 45miles is still 45miles and a ball-ache twice a day.... however you do it.... AND if money is an issue, looking at the bigger picture of your 'life-style', and looking at where the money goes, is likely to offer up savings, like I mentioned, cutting credit, thinking twice about 'convenience travel', that can find you the sort of £ a year savings you hope to see from a motorbike, or more, depending on how far you go, and deliver them more dependably, without having to spend money to save money, or commit to something that could still prove an expensive mistake!

455 miles, each way, every day! An extra 20-25% on your working day, having to spend money rather than make it!! Do you really want that life-style? And in the suggested bigger picture... how viable is moving closer to where you work, or getting a job closer to where you live!

It's a long commuter, end of, and like I said, a 125 could do it, but could you?... I did do it on one in my younger days... for a few months... I wouldn't like to be having to do it now, in my middle-years... 20 miles at a stretch is about my endurance limit on a light-weight before old bones start grumbling.... but then I wouldn't be much relishing the thought of doing it in a car, either!

There are so many variables in there.... we cant give easy answers, but you asked what we thought, and those are my thinks on the matter.

Other's may say go for it, others say your nuts, in the middle, there'll be a lot of suggestion of going straight to DAS and getting a more comfortable middleweight commuter twin, and all will be valid....

But bottom line... seperate the variables here.... cos if you want a bike to save you money... don't bother... chances are it wont, and that even if it does, you will HATE it, HAVING to ride the thing JUST to make it pay for itself.... and with such a long commute, that ent going to end well!

So back up, and separate needs and wants you are trying to hang into the plan, rank their relative importance... and weigh up ALL the options, not just two-wheels or four....

AND before you make any big decisions, invest £150 in a CBT course.. you have a two hour road ride at the end of that, to get your ticket.... when you get home at the end of the day, ponder your aches and pains and general level of knackerdness.... THAT is whats' most like to tell you whether the notion has any future...
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Rogerborg]

Apologies if I duplicate whatever Mike just ejaculated, he really is tl;dr.

You can certainly try it on a 125, and if you buy Japanese and used you're unlikely to lose much value if you decide to go for training and tests and a bigger bike.

But your average speed will be closer to 40, or over an hour each way. You'll get stuck behind anything slow, and you'll hold up anything fast.

That's a big chunk of your life, day after day. You'll also spend a lot more time spannering the bike and changing consumables than you would with a car. A lot more, think 2500 miles for oil changes, 5000 miles for tyres, with regular clean/oil/adjustment of the chain. Valve clearances, brake cleaning and pad changing, clutch adjustment, cables snapping, it all adds up.

It'll be miserable in winter, and there will be some days when you can't do it on a bike, or just won't be able to face it.

I wouldn't do 90 miles a day on any bike through choice, and certainly not on a 125. Sorry.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Val]

[Rogerborg]

Sadly, I do agree. If you're riding purely for utility, a scooter makes more sense. But a car makes more.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[bamt]

Says the man who obviously doesn't commute through London's extended car parks of the M3, M25, M40, A40


Edit to add:

I don't actually disagree. Bikes are hotter than air conditioned cars in summer, colder and wetter in winter. Without decent kit it would be pretty miserable. But I ride a pushbike in all weathers (think water bottles frozen solid type of weather), and did that 90 mile round trip daily commute on a pushbike because it was faster and less stressful than taking the car. Just not as fast as on the motorbike. I love being out in the weather, feeling the change of the seasons, being part of the world not isolated from it.
Not everyone likes that.

[Rogerborg]

London is a special case for special riders.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[KnightsFall]

[andyscooter]

[KnightsFall]

[JonWal]

I have a 125 commuter, with a 80 Mile round trip. However, its not fun. My journey involves a lot of rural and NSL roads.

My logic was always to go the DAS route, but to get a few months practice in on the YBR125. Hopefully wont lose much when I come to sell.

I've already booked my DAS. I'd advise going the same route.
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- Yamaha YBR 125 - Swansea, UK
- Triumph Street Triple
A Licence Passed 25.09.2015

[bikertomm]

+1 Echo the above.

90 Miles a day on a 125 will be brain numbing, not to mention your arse...

Whilst yes the fuel costs on a 125 are lol-worthy, it probably isn't your best option. Have you taken decent gear into the equation and the rain/winter?

Get a cheap car that's good on fuel, do full test - win.
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07' Honda Hornet now full powaah! My guide on performing an oil change!

[dannyc86]

After reading all of your advice I've come to a decision. I'm going to commute by car until I've passed my full test. My car, if driven sensibly, will do 60mpg so although more expensive, not massively so.

I never really thought about the days when it's pissing it down and freezing cold. As you'very said, at least on the car im warm and dry!

[Rogerborg]

Good plan. Biking is a pleasure activity, if you force yourself to do it when it's miserable it can quickly tarnish.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike