Back to biking after 22 years with Kwaki ZZR600 need tips.

[Peperami]

Hi Folks,

New to this group so "Hi everyone",

I just got back into biking after a 22 year break (way to long I know) and purchased a less-than-ideal bike for practicing on but what can I say, the bike was good value and I liked the looks of the ZZR600-E11

Anyway, whats done is done. Having taken the machine for a 25 mile test ride (and getting back in one piece) I was pleased to get-off the thing! While the machine is mechanicaly sound the rider is very "rusty" and is finding the handling of modern bikes (modern to me) very different from the 30 to 40+ year old machines I rode in the past.

A biker pal of mine described the feeling of modern sport bikes as "falling into the bends" and thats exactly how the bike feels to me. While I feel sure more practice might help I would would love to hear the accumalated wisdom and thoughts of any "older" riders who have ridden both old and new machines. and how they compare.

To define older machines:
BSA C15, Honda CB500T, Suzuki GS250 and Triumph Tiger 650 for example.

If any older riders out there remember what these bike are like and have also ridden the newer or current breed of motorcycle then please let me know how they compare and any tips for adjusting to the new breed.

To start the ball rolling my first impression is that newer machines have a much higher center of gravity and are somewhat "top heavy" compared to older machines. While I am sure this is for improved road-holding I wonder if anyone could explain why. And what are the most significant changes in bike frame design over the last 20 or 30 years. Brakes and suspension I am aware of but the design of bike frames has changed from the classic cradle to something I no longer understand

Anyhow, thanks for reading this and any thoughts, advice or tips will be most welcome.

Kind regards,

Peperami
PS Thats what I call my Kawasaki ZZR600 because it feels like "a bit of an animal"

[Jaloopa]

I've had a ZZR600 for about 8 months, although for me it's actually about 10 years older than my last bike, an ER5, so I won't be much help on the modern vs classic comparison.

What I've noticed about the ZZR is it feels heavier than you'd think would be usable. For the first couple of months I was taking corners very slowly because it felt like I couldn't get t into the lean easily. As I've got used to it I've gained a lot of confidence. The machine's limits are well beyond mine, so as long as I'm not absolutely terrified by my speed and lean angle I know the bike should be able to get through.

One comparison I've heard a lot between old and new bikes is that classics always let you know how far away from the limit you were, and so felt a bit twitchy, whereas a modern bike will be absolutely fine until it goes too far and loses it. Too far is a lot further than on a classic machine though. I'm sure if that's wrong the more experienced heads here will correct me
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mattsprattuk wrote: but at least the lifan could do like 104mph in 3rd gear

[Peperami]

Hi Jaloopa and thanks for the reply,

I read your comments with interest and your description of the ZZR's behaviour is pretty much how it seems to me when riding it. Your "feels heavier than you'd think would be usable" comment struck a chord with me and seems very true at the moment.

It sounds like the feel of the bike will improve with more riding hours though I must say I found your comment "a modern bike will be absolutely fine until it goes too far and loses it" a bit worrying

To be honest I dont have any "road burning" ambitions any more but I would like to become confident on the machine before I get something perhaps a little more tame.

BTW I narrowly missed an ER5 on ebay and in many ways that would have been a much more suitable bike for me. That or the Honda 500 twin, both of those machines are more familiar to me with more of a retro feel about them.

Ah, well, perhaps I will trade for an ER5 next summer?

Thanks again for the feedback and taking the time to respond.

Regards,

Peperami

[Daytona Paul]

Book yourself on a day with a good instructor - can help loads
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[DrSnoosnoo]

I'm a ZZR6 owner too.

The weight you become accustomed to quite quickly. It's a low bike, or I'm tall, so I just sit on it to move it around to get around that issue. If I stand up and attempt to push it backwards, I'm bent right over so trying to convert energy into lateral motion can be quite hard.

The bike can corner quite well. Pegs can scrape before it lets go so I would be sure that unless that's happening or your switching your throttle on and off throughout the corners, it shouldn't surprise you.

The "stuff" you would have learned on the older bikes, about being smooth, planning well ahead is still good today, just because you have good brakes doesn't mean you should accelerate like a loon and slam the anchors on at the red it.

If you're feeling truly iffy, a day out with an instructor would be very useful I'd have thought. If you tell us where you are, there'll be some members who can offer suggestions.
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I'm Sam; Northern, Ginger, Lover
Did have: '95 ZZR600 '83 CG125 '97 ZZR1100 '15 Hypermotard 821 SP Do Have: '10 ZX10R

[Kickstart]

Hi

The ZZR isn't light, but is very low. Most modern bikes probably have a fairly bit higher CoG

Suspect weight has moved forward on modern bikes compared to older bikes.

Suspension has changed, and with more chance of getting damping to work! Although with adjustable suspension there is a whole new way for owners to screw up the handling (my better halfs ZZR600 handled horribly when she first got it - someone had used thicker fork oil than standard and really screwed things up).

All the best

K
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[Matt B]

new guy peperami and pepperami - this could get confusing
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stinkwheel: He had an animated .gif of a cat performing fellatio. It's not socially acceptable. It can have real life adverse effects on other people.

[Wednesday Biker]

I tried out a ZZR and was really surprised how heavy they felt.
Not sure how heavy it actually is but didn't feel right for me so I looked elsewhere.
Its a modern bike but feels old tech to me.

[DrSnoosnoo]

[Wednesday Biker]

It was a bit newer than that
They don't seem to have changed much though.

[Wonko The Sane]

Another ZZR owner here,

Came off a 125 varadero which just felt like an overgrown mountain bike onto the ZZR and took me some time to get used to it and trust it in corners.

It doesn't like being coddled round corners trying to keep it upright, you've got to lean it.

first things first, a common tyre to fit is the BT21 or BT23 by bridgestone, the front tyre wears like a 50p piece causing you to fight to lean the bike, then suddenly it leans over into the corner - hated this and fitted new tyres (Pirelli PR3's) and all thoughts about selling it and getting something else were gone.

I had to learn to lean my body into the corner and get the bike to follow, works well for easy riding, bit more spirited riding add a bit of counter steer and its as though the bike wakes up under me and wants to get on with it.

other than that, same technique you'll have used for previous machines you've owned, set up the bike for the corner in terms of speed and gears so that you don't have to brake etc

probably the only difference is to keep the revs up when asking it to do anything, I generally keep revs around 7k only letting it dip when cruising for fuel ecconomy on the motorway / dual carriageway - the exception being using 2nd in 30mph bits as first is a little low.

take it steady and I'm sure you'll start to enjoy it - you might trade it in later down the line, or may wish to keep it as long as you can.
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[Minty]

[Peperami]

Hi again everyone,

First of all, my thanks to all who responded with comments and advice. I found the tips on handlind and tyres very enlightening.

Since first posting I have done some very basic maintenance by way of adjustment and lubrication of the throttle and clutch cables which has made a huge difference to the character of the machine. Not quite the "monster" it first seemed anymore Indeed, I can now ride the machine from the driveway into the garage smoothly without re-arranging the garage

I have had some hands-on tips from local riders which echo the advice given here, I have taken on-board all the tips regarding riding the ZZR and when spare time permits and the summer decides to return I look forward to taking the machine out again to put the good advice into practice. If the confidence level is still on the low side after that then I will look into getting some refresher courses.

Thanks again and kind regards,

Peperami.

[Wonko The Sane]

[Peperami]

Hi again,

Just a quick follow-up to my original posting...

Summer has indeed returned (for a while) and I got the ZZR600 out again today with the result that I now have 3 hours riding time and almost 100 miles (average speed about 33 MPH but the important hting is that the bike felt much better after oiling the clutch and throttle cables and following the advice from members of this forum..

Wonko The Sane wrote:
It doesn't like being coddled round corners trying to keep it upright, you've got to lean it.
*** end quote ***

Yes, I followed your advice and found it worked for me. The bike still seems very "twitchy" but flies in a straight line on a straight road so it must just be the nature of the machine. I really seems to like the open road, I found a stretch of deserted dual carriageway this morning and wound it up a little. Above 50 or 60 Mph it has a whole new character and feels very well behaved.

Not so well behaved at 20 MPH but I suspect that with only 3 hours riding after 22 years away that low speed handling will get better with more practice in the sunshine.

The first time I rode the machine I could not wait to get off it The secoond time I rode the machine I did not want to get off it and cant wait to get back on it again

Thanks again for all the helpful comments and confidence building advice, I just need to keep my eye on the speedo now

Best wishes,

Peperami (aka Des)