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| st3v3 |
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 st3v3 Super Spammer

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 12:49 - 12 Aug 2015 Post subject: Scamera Vans? |
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This sounds like a very long shot, laughable idea so i'm looking for advice from sensible people here before I go and test it...
"Safety Camera Vans", these things manned by civilian staff.
According to some legislation I read when it comes to offences a Constable has authority to action what s/he deems lawful.
Now, last year when I inadvertently kicked off a public protest I was informed by a Constable that unless I was willing to walk away he would do me for a public order offence, I briefed the public order act with him and nobody would speak up and say my actions were impacting their quality of life etc so he conceeded I couldn't be done for it - Constables on duty are impartial and cannot have an opinion on it?
Anyhews part of this protest was informing motorists of certain things, I was then informed that if I stopped someone going about their lawful business; that was an offence, and regardless of anyone complaining he could do me, if I hassled a driver while stopped in traffic I was fine, if I stopped a car as a civilian I could be arrested for it.
So, this got me thinking, police staff are not constables and have no such powers, yet sit in these camera vans protecting kittens from bikers doing even 1mph over the limit on a rolling country road - under what powers? Because I might be wrong but if a police civilian staff (not a badged traffic cop or constable with powers) is sat in a camera van are they not:
1) impersonating Police
2) acting as a civilian and when someone slams on in seeing said van 'causing them to stop going about their lawful business'?
I have never been done for a speeding offence, this isn't some payback plan I'm just curious whether i'm over-hoping there's a loophole.  ____________________ Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done |
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| SwartGevaar |
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 SwartGevaar L Plate Warrior
Joined: 29 Jun 2014 Karma : 
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| Minty |
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 Minty World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Dec 2005 Karma :   
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| blueglue |
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 blueglue Trackday Trickster

Joined: 10 Jun 2014 Karma :  
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| Taught2BCauti... |
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 Taught2BCauti... World Chat Champion

Joined: 12 Jan 2012 Karma :    
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 Posted: 13:39 - 12 Aug 2015 Post subject: |
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The civilian operators will be acting as agents, for the purpose of collecting evidence, which if obtained lawfully, may be used to prossecute offenders.
Police have a secret power known as 'the ways and means act' - piss them off a certain amount, and you will be taught a lesson. If nothing else comes to mind, you will more than likely be arrested for 'behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace' - which will probably amount to nothing in the long run, but still something best avoided. ____________________ Honda Varadero XL125(V8)
www.TheFutureIsHere.eu |
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| st3v3 |
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 st3v3 Super Spammer

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 17:25 - 12 Aug 2015 Post subject: |
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| Taught2BCautious wrote: | The civilian operators will be acting as agents, for the purpose of collecting evidence, which if obtained lawfully, may be used to prosecute offenders.
| In that instance there is no difference between me telling a copper i'm doing it and the staff in the van doing it.
Also bear in mind 'legal' is not 'lawful', I refer to Lawful in the OP..
Take this:
| Other Thread wrote: | What a dick that guy is who filmed the footage. I don't see what he is trying to achieve. Quite a few 'police' vehicles are driven by civilian staff - such as Scenes of Crime people, Vehicle Examiners etc... | But those types of civilian staff aren't operating in a manner which is technically unlawful, they are going about their paid duties.
Civilian staff aren't constables, they may be classed as 'agents' by the inspector or such like but the legislation as far as I can see states that Constables as the lowest ranking badge have fining and detaining powers, not collar numbered staff.
Flip the question, can a 'police civilian staff' issue a Section 59 to a boy racer? ____________________ Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done |
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| Keir |
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 Keir World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Karma :   
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 Posted: 17:35 - 12 Aug 2015 Post subject: |
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generally the camera vans are fitted with fixed and calibrated cameras, the 'operator' does nothing but drive it there and stop anyone smashing it up of stealing it etc. The camera records the evidence, not the civilian, and then police send out NIPs to the car keepers afterwards.
I don't know about everywhere but here in Essex I cant remember the last time I saw a camera van, I heard a rumour they got sold off due to the budget cuts but obviously this wasn't publicised. ____________________ Current : '08 Yamaha FZ1s
Previous: '99 Honda CBR 600FX, 03 ZX636 B1H, 99 Fazer 600 (red), 02 GSX-R 600 K2, 00 SV650s (red), 2008 ZX10R, 97 Bandit 1200N, 04 ZX6RR K1H, 04 GSX-R 1000, 98 Fazer 600 (gold), 05 Madness 110 Pit bike, 04 CR125R, 00 SV650s (black), 06 KTM 625 SMC, 99 SRAD 600 track bike, 03 SV650, 98 Bandit 1200N, Bandit 600SY, 03 GSX-R 600 K3, 01 GSX-R 600, 01 Fazer 600 (black), VFR 400 NC30 x3, 78 Honda Dream, 00 Speedfight 50 |
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| T.C |
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 T.C World Chat Champion

Joined: 05 Nov 2003 Karma :   
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| blueglue |
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 blueglue Trackday Trickster

Joined: 10 Jun 2014 Karma :  
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| berzerker |
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 berzerker Renault 5 Driver
Joined: 27 Sep 2013 Karma :    
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| berzerker |
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 berzerker Renault 5 Driver
Joined: 27 Sep 2013 Karma :    
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| Taught2BCauti... |
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 Taught2BCauti... World Chat Champion

Joined: 12 Jan 2012 Karma :    
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 Posted: 11:16 - 13 Aug 2015 Post subject: |
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I once heard a story about someone who thought he was well within his rights, to stand behind a safety camera van, waving something in front of the camera as vehicles approached.
Police arrived and politely suggested that he move away, but he protested his 'rights' and was subsequently arrested and charged with obstructing Police and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
It bet OP is planning to do something like that. ____________________ Honda Varadero XL125(V8)
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| st3v3 |
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 st3v3 Super Spammer

Joined: 16 Oct 2006 Karma :     
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 Posted: 19:18 - 18 Aug 2015 Post subject: |
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| T.C wrote: | There are more than 1,600 non-police officers have been given enforcement powers by the Home Ofice under its so-called Community Safety Accreditation Schemes which was introduced in 2002.
| Maybe not according to the legislation.. the lawful freedoms of the land state a Constable has powers, not civilians dressed as 'enforcement officers'.
The CSAC also covers criminal categories for offences, not civil.
| Wiki wrote: | Amongst the provisions of the Act are the creation of the role of police community support officer, who have some police powers whilst not being 'sworn in' constables | They are still not sworn in constables, and regardless of how a Government or Chief Constable dresses the reform act or 'legal' side, the lawful statutes I read don't support it.
| Quote: | 4.—(1) Subject to paragraphs (2) and (3), the ranks of a police force shall be known by the following designations—
Chief Constable;
Deputy Chief Constable;
Assistant Chief Constable;
Chief Superintendent;
Superintendent;
Chief Inspector;
Inspector;
Sergeant;
Constable.
| If these are the lawful legislative ranks of Police that have powers then where are PCSO's, and why isn't there a link to an updated legislation listing PCSO's/Civilian staff?
It's as if they fall under the same category as a Bouncer, but can issue a fixed penalty which is only a pro-forma invoice for a petty crime.
So, a Civilian Staff with a collar number that hasn't been sworn in for Constable powers, should technically be classified as a regular paid office worker and have no rights to prevent you going about your lawful business?
Making sitting with a speed gun in a Police van a public order offence once you slam on the brakes? ____________________ Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done |
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| groovylee |
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 groovylee World Chat Champion

Joined: 20 Nov 2011 Karma :  
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 Posted: 20:08 - 18 Aug 2015 Post subject: |
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lawful business.
if you are slamming on when you see the van, its because you're speeding.
so really, they're only stopping you going about your unlawful business  ____________________ Past - 1988 honda revere 600, 1996 kawasaki gpz500s, 1999 Yamaha R6
Current - 2002 Aprilia RSV1000R & 1999 Kawasaki ZX6R |
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 Nexus Icon World Chat Champion
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| groovylee |
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 groovylee World Chat Champion

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 iooi Super Spammer

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 Nexus Icon World Chat Champion
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| st3v3 |
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 st3v3 Super Spammer

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| andyscooter |
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 andyscooter World Chat Champion

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 st3v3 Super Spammer

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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 11 years, 68 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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