So The Display Jet Crash Pilot...........

[Llama-Farmer]

https://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/MobileSwitcher/v2/images/1682-1440434000809228973.svg


As I mentioned in the other thread regarding the accident, I suspected he may not have made his "gate" (a pre-determined height at the top of the loop where you can abort the manoeuvre if too low). The gate is the height he should be at (2) in the first image.

If he hadn't made the "gate" he would still have the chance to push the aircraft out of the loop, roll the right way up and fly level... as in the picture below... and go away for another attempt.

https://content.answcdn.com/main/content/img/McGrawHill/Aviation/f0355-02.gif


As it turns out... he won't have made his gate... not truly. Although it is possible he either thought he had, or didn't make the check.


I haven't made to presume he wilfully commenced the manoeuvre at a lower than authorised height.
I don't suggest he did that intentionally, nor do I say it was an unintended mistake or error, there isn't sufficient evidence to draw either conclusion.



The report has established that he commenced at around 200ft... which is 300ft lower than he was authorised in his DA.


BUT... one possibility for people to entertain...

As you climb in altitude, air pressure reduces.
It does this as a rate of 1hPa (1mb) per 28ft. Mean sea level pressure in ISA conditions (international standard atmosphere) is 1013hPa... but depending on weather systems, anything between 990-1020 is very common and normal.
Incorrectly setting the altimeter to a pressure setting would give you a false altitude. If he set say 1015 ("QFE one zero one five") instead of 1005 ("QFE one zero zero five") , that would put cause his altimeter to read 300ft higher than he actually was.
300ft just happens to be how much below the minimum commencement height he was.

He took off from a different airfield (North Weald, Essex) and so will likely have changed "pressure settings" a few times during the flight between Essex and Shoreham. Easy to mishear ATC reporting the QFE or QNH, or to set it wrong accidentally. On the ground, you set QFE and it should read 0ft, if you set QNH on the ground it should read the elevation (above sea level) of the airfield. But if you change it in the air, there's no real way to check it against anything other than the ATC read-back.

I'm not saying that was the reason... but it is one possibility rather than everyone jumping on the cowboy-pilot bandwagon.




Virtually no aviation accident is the result of a single thing. It is a chain of events with multiple causal factors... One single tiny difference could prevent most accidents, even though another 19 other tiny things still happened... an accident is like a loop of chain... and if you can break one link it falls apart.


James Reason's Swiss Cheese Model of Accident Causation...
it takes a lot of holes to line up for an accident to happen.
One little difference and the holes don't line up and an accident is prevented, or at least reduced to a less serious incident or an occurrence.

https://www.qualitydigest.com/IQedit/Images/Articles_and_Columns/2012/Oct_2012/cheese-lg.gif
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[Vincent]

Interesting stuff
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Space Is Deep

[unitynotsocri...]

As well as altimeter setup errors , there may have been engine\ fuelling issues , especially on an old dog like a hs hunter ,

On the altimeter\ altitude theme , his altimeter made have read OK but over the airshow the ground level may have been three hundred feet higher.
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nearly a normal tax paying tosser.......with ferrileness suzi100,cg125,cb125scb100n,cb175,cd100,cj250t,kh250,c15,125 bantam,super 6,rickman gs750,xt500,250rs,dt175,lifan125,dolomite1850,metro,Morris220ld,morrisfg,leyland princess,range rover,corsa,vw camper .now struggling with legs. MORE ORDER = MORE CHAOS

[Llama-Farmer]

[unitynotsocri...]

Then it's obviously a case of a jumbo pack of Haribo jammed in the control column while looping the loop..
Usually, its traditional to blame the pilot.
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nearly a normal tax paying tosser.......with ferrileness suzi100,cg125,cb125scb100n,cb175,cd100,cj250t,kh250,c15,125 bantam,super 6,rickman gs750,xt500,250rs,dt175,lifan125,dolomite1850,metro,Morris220ld,morrisfg,leyland princess,range rover,corsa,vw camper .now struggling with legs. MORE ORDER = MORE CHAOS

[Undinist]

[smegballs]

I too was suprised how old lots of aircraft are. Was chatting to my dad (used to be a flying instructor) about buying planes, and pulled up a plane website. I was shocked to see plenty of 1950's planes for sale.

After exclaiming ''are these ancient pieces of junk still okay?'' he assured me they were fine and he'd happily fly one

[Polarbear]

Didn't Bendy buy some antiquated heap and proceed to fly it around the UK without turning herself into strawberry jam?
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[smegballs]

https://lightsportaircraftpilot.com/eindecker_airdromeaeroplanes/images/airdrome/eindecker-snf05.JPG

You can buy kits for this WWI eindecker....

I've always wondered why no-one just gets a big laser cutter and starts knocking out Hurricanes using off the shelf fittings and engines.

[Undinist]

[Hetzer]

If a pilot needs an altimeter to judge a loop he really shouldn't be doing aerobatics in the first place, because it means he's a crap pilot. Any combat-pilot (or aerobatic) worth his salt knows his plane and is able to visually ascertain the safe distance from the ground to perform a loop in a given plane.

Thousands of hours in PC simulators here.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[chickenstrip]

[Hetzer]

I'm sure any pilot will nod his head like a dog when asked if he's following all the correct procedures. Then do what he feels is best. Just like when your other half says "Don't go too fast darling" and you smile and nod, "of course not" before ploughing into a car at 120.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[chickenstrip]

[unitynotsocri...]

He should have known better though , just like bikers who've been riding like dicvkheads, only to blame the traffic bollard for being in the way.

If its a mechanical fault then it should surface , the hunter is a great jet but just like bikers going from a modern sports bike toa drum braked 50 S Brit shit bike.......beware!!!! Give yourself more braking time and don't trust the square section tyres like you do riding a fixed with metzelers on.
Well at least he's alive and can help the investigation , like that bastard lying dangerous bin truck driver from Glasgow!

I have some old eight mm film from some airshow , there's folland gnats and other stuff.What is wacky looking at it is the punters ,and ice cream van are all parked NEXT to the runway , yards from the moving planes.
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nearly a normal tax paying tosser.......with ferrileness suzi100,cg125,cb125scb100n,cb175,cd100,cj250t,kh250,c15,125 bantam,super 6,rickman gs750,xt500,250rs,dt175,lifan125,dolomite1850,metro,Morris220ld,morrisfg,leyland princess,range rover,corsa,vw camper .now struggling with legs. MORE ORDER = MORE CHAOS

[Llama-Farmer]

[Hetzer]

Ah well. I've fought hundreds of RAF fighters from 20k all the way down to the deck, so maybe my level of experience is greater.


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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[Undinist]

I know we're not supposed to, but I want to guess what the causes were. This is what we know (I think). Llama I'm sure you have something to add?

1. the pilot started the loop at 200', which was 300' lower than planned
2. he was 300' below the gate at the top of the loop
2. he chose to complete the loop. No attempt to correct the situation until almost at the bottom of the loop.
4. I reckon we can assume that a guy of his background and experience would have abandoned the loop if he'd known how low he was
5. so he must have believed he'd started the loop at c. 500'
6. the cockpit video suggests the controls were responding normally before the loop and all the way through it

So...possible causes:
- altimeter set wrong
- altimeter not working
- someone on the ground gave him altitude info which was wrong, or it was right but he misheard or misunderstood
- he wasn't looking at the altimeter because he was distracted by some other malfunction
- he knew the the altimeter was not set to display height above sea level so he was judging his height visually. One big landmark as he was running in for the loop is Lancing College Chapel, which is 115' up a hill. Perhaps he thought it was lower.
- he greyed out during the loop (is this usual? was he wearing a G suit, how well did it work?)
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[Llama-Farmer]

[unitynotsocri...]

So, my big bag of Haribo theory isn't all that mad after all!
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nearly a normal tax paying tosser.......with ferrileness suzi100,cg125,cb125scb100n,cb175,cd100,cj250t,kh250,c15,125 bantam,super 6,rickman gs750,xt500,250rs,dt175,lifan125,dolomite1850,metro,Morris220ld,morrisfg,leyland princess,range rover,corsa,vw camper .now struggling with legs. MORE ORDER = MORE CHAOS

[Hetzer]

I don't think he greyed out. You can see the left wing drop as he reaches the ground, classic accelerated stall of the wing due to him hauling back on the stick. He then corrects it (stick right).

It was a simple cock-up, pilot error.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[Vincent]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35773975

Not looking good for future displays......pilots straying over built up areas mentioned in the report.
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Space Is Deep

[Llama-Farmer]

It's damning for civilian display authorisation.

When the AAIB publish their final report, there will be a number of people/organisations who have a lot to answer for.

CAA and the display organisers in particular.

A military air display (not necessarily a military air show, but a military display at a civilian show too) is precisely coordinated and each manoeuvre is exactly planned out and practiced meticulously. The display authorisation is based only on this and no "ad hoc" or modified manoeuvres are allowed (except for safety reasons in exceptional circumstances which would result in the abort of the display anyway).

CAA seems to have been a bit shoddy here tbh.
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[arry]

Well the daily nail cuntathon has set its sights and off we go with thoroughly irrelevant character assassination

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3414515/Shoreham-air-disaster-pilot-spotted-driving-Porsche.html


How dare he

[Vincent]