CBT feeling liked I "failed"

carriusmaximu... · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 20 Sep 2015 Karma :

Hey everybody

I took my CBT today on my 125cc Peugeot Sumup scooter. I had choosen to
Do it automatic as I don't drive at all and literally had no road sense at all.
I would lOVE to ride one day its always been my dream. But at the ripe age of 30....well I was too scared to put my dream into action....until now.
I tried to prepare so much. Watched videos read forums. Had a couple of blasts in a car park to get some feel for my scooter before hand.

The CBT I was actually enjoying. Did not get frustrated even if I needed to do something repetitively to pick it up.
However I could not use slow control very well. Have I misunderstood how to use back brake? I couldn't really complete a figure of 8 or U turn. The instructor said we needed to move on but we could come back to it. I asked a few times but we never did.
Basically sounds ridiculous I am sure but after an hour my hands hurt so bad I couldn't use my fingertips to grip the break. I have the world's tinest hands too. Seriously kids hands. Also when should I be applying the brake for slow control. The instructor kept saying not enough power to me. But if I opened the throttle any more without more breaks I kept zooming off. I did stop my instructor to go over this with me But he said I was doing it right. I didn't feel like I was at all.
The one bit I really wanted to practise was stopping for junctions and going through osmpsl. They said usually its done on bike's but as they are running out of time we just walked it on foot and he explained it. Didn't sink in so well.

Skip to roads section. Was on the roads for an hour an a half. Took my turn at the back was kind of proud of myself. Then we both followed instructor then my turn to lead. Everything was going I felt very well for some time.
Then at a junction I couldn't use slow control and lost control of my bike.
Crash bang it went to the floor. It wasn't very dramatic not the best place for it on a busy Saturday road. I remained calm picked my bike up. Instructor checked I was ok. And I jumped straight back on and pulled away correctly (apart from being over the junction line)

The instructor made me do the same circuit of road twice over. Which I did fine.

But hey got back and as expected no CBT certificate for me. Felt very embrassed. Especially being on a scooter. All the research I had done said CBT are easy and really hard to not get it completed in one day.

So I need to go back. Pay another £75 quid for comeback too. Boooooo. But I know if its worth it to be safe and road worthy.

Was just wondering if anyone had any tips or advice for me. One to cheer me up my confidence was kinda low anyway but its reached below zero now hahaha. And two because I really want to know how to do better next time.

Thank you everyone. Smile

Pete. · Super Spammer Joined: 22 Aug 2006 Karma :

Sounds like nerves Carrie. Bikes and scooters are less stable at low speed so you're experiencing quite natural behaviour (apart from the tipping off bit.

What to do? Go back to your car park and practice very slow maneuvers. A couple of hours of that and you'll be handling it like Dougie Lampkin. Just one thing though - make sure the car park is not open for anyone to drive in off the road. If it is, then it's classed as a public highway and you would need to be strictly road-leagl to be riding there (i.e. to have already passed your CBT).
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy

Simba76 · Renault 5 Driver Joined: 17 Dec 2014 Karma :

Don't worry about it.
I "failed" my first go at CBT. Like you I had to go back and do it again.
Slow control on a 125 is tough at first, never ridden a scooter but it sounds about as tough.
I dropped my instructors 600 twice in the same 2hour lesson. Both times at junctions.
Didn't ride again for almost 2 weeks then got back on and passed my MOD2 first go with only one minor fault.
It's a learning process and mistakes and irritations will happen.
The important thing is to learn and move forward.
Make progress as they say.
Good luck.
____________________
If you can keep your head while all around are loosing theirs....you're probably in some sort of Zombie movie!

-Current bike ......

Kidjal · Nitrous Nuisance Joined: 20 Sep 2015 Karma :

Agree with all of the above. My driving instructor many years ago said to me something that's stuck all this time... remember that these are not natural actions and movements for the body to learn. We have not evolved to multitask and operate powered machinery but we have evolved to *learn and adapt* and that can take time. You'll get there

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

Andy_Pagin · World Chat Champion Joined: 08 Nov 2010 Karma :

First things first, can you ride a bicycle? If not then that pretty much explains the problems. Either way I'd suggest you get a bicycle and develop some on-road confidence with it, and practice the off road stuff as well. This will give you some of the confidence you're lacking, which seems to be the root of the problem.
____________________
They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa, hey-hey,
the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
Yamaha Vity -> YBR125 -> FZS600 Fazer -> FZ1-S Fazer

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

Yes!

After doing my CBT (2nd go...) I decided that riding a motorbike was a bloody stupid thing to do, and chose to pedal a pushbike for a year first.

Once I'd got it through my head that two wheeled transport is treated with utter contempt by every other road user, but that you can deal with their inadequacies and not get potatoed, I bought a 125 and it's been gravy ever since.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

Taught2BCauti... · World Chat Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2012 Karma :

Practising on a bicycle is a good idea, as you can do it more or less anywhere, without having to worry about licencing or insurance.

As you attempted your first CBT on your own scooter, I'm guessing you have a legal way of getting it there and back - so if possible (check in advance), turn up for the next one an hour early and practice your slow riding on their property. You should be able to do this legally as long as you have their permission.
____________________
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www.TheFutureIsHere.eu

Ayrton · World Chat Champion Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Karma :

Dont let it get you down, i went 4 times and to two different schools before i passed my cbt Laughing

It's a lot to learn in a single day and i bet when you go back you will be more relaxed and a better rider.
If you can take your scooter to an empty car park and practice some figure of 8's and slow moving stuff.

Taught2BCauti... · World Chat Champion Joined: 12 Jan 2012 Karma :

Ayrton · World Chat Champion Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Karma :

WD Forte · World Chat Champion Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Karma :

Carrie
As above, don't let it get you down.
It is a lot to take in if you're new to bikes/scoots and the road
and you haven't 'failed' you just need more practise.
One of my lads recently did his CBT and watching him do it and later riding with him
brought home to me how nerve racking it can be until your bike control gets natural.

I've often thought 'playgrounds' where you could go and play/practise control and slow speed
stuff in your own time with no pass/fail pressure would help new and older bikers alike.
I expect us older bikers who learnt on knackered old wrecks in fields as kids had it easy in some ways
You got on, fell off, got back on and so on.
we saw it as play and it was, but it was in fact practise and when we got to road going machines
on nice smooth roads control was a breeze.
____________________
bikers smell of wee

pinkyfloyd · Super Spammer Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Karma :

DO NOT GO BACK TO THAT SCHOOL

I'll explain why.

carriusmaximu... · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 20 Sep 2015 Karma :

Thank you very much for all your advice. It really has been helpful. Smile

And definitely want to get Back on the horse as they say!

My dad is a bike rider and I get him to ride my bike to a private car park where he works. He has been great and shown me some basics but some of the things he showed me are different to what the instructor says. (maybe its because there was no CBTs in his day hahah)
I had two stints on the bike before my cbt to grab some basics (probably not enough unfortunately)
My dad is on holiday for a week so a bit gutted he cant take my bike there. But I will practise on a push bike in the meantime. And maybe even wait a week or two before rebooking. I didnt want to leave it to late but think you are all right and maybe concentrate on some no pressure practise in my own time.

Thank you pinkyfloyd that is good advice, I really appreciate it. I did think of another school and found one in my area. I do understand that it can be busy on saturdays but my main reason for looking else where is because I feel I may need that little extra attention, being so inexperienced. Shame I'm not near portsmouth.
As there was six students there, there was three instructors. Mine was quite calm and understanding but they all took turns in instructing all of us at times.

grr666 · Super Spammer Joined: 16 Jun 2014 Karma :

Shoeb · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 24 Aug 2015 Karma :

I also "failed" my CBT first time. I was really stressed out (suffer panic attacks sometimes so I was pretty on edge), and my instructor thought he was a fecking drill sergeant or something, screaming at me like I was 10 years old whenever I missed ANYTHING, which is pretty often if you have all of 2 hours experience. As a result, I kept making more and more errors. Wasn't surprised I didn't get the certificate.

Couple of days later, I go back and get a different instructor, super chilled out (doesn't get an erection from bawling at teenagers), and I didn't make a single error all afternoon. I was just infinitely more relaxed so it was easier to think my way through maneuvers. Second guy had no idea how I'd not got it first time.

Don't worry is my point. In normal riding you're rarely under so much pressure so processing information is loads easier. Tests aren't always a good reflection of what everyday riding is like, so don't let it put you off! There's a difference between not being good with bikes/cars and not being good with tests!

KnightsFall · Nitrous Nuisance Joined: 14 Oct 2014 Karma :

When I did mine, there was four of us. Two were repeating it and were on geared bikes (though did not bring their own). One had ridden years ago and was looking to get back into it, riding an ageing Vespa 125cc with gears (at least I think that was his story but he rode his own scooter there so not sure how he pulled that off without a CBT). Then there was me, a first timer on the school's moped. We only had a single instructor during the off road segment, though he was patient and I did not feel rushed. Both myself and one or two of the repeat offenders had to repeat some manoeuvres before he was satisfied. For the on road stuff, we did separate into pairs with an instructor each.

I got through it in one session but it certainly gave me some reason to appreciate just how much is expected of learners in a single day. I had been driving for over ten years and also have ridden a bicycle on the road on plenty of occasions. I did not have to worry about basic road sense, etc. Combine driving experience with appreciating the vulnerability of a cyclist and you cannot go far wrong. But there really is a lot to take in, even with that level of experience going in. And that was on a moped. Even after a year on a 125cc scooter, learning gears was a fresh challenge. I would definitely say that you should not feel bad about needing more time.

One of the biggest weaknesses with scooters, when it comes to the slow manoeuvres, is that the power, such as it is, may not come on all that smoothly (most likely varies by make/model). It is not a lot of power but it can come on quite suddenly and can be enough to leave you going too fast to easily complete the manoeuvre. You wind up having to use the rear brake to keep it in check and the engine did not sound liked it like this on my own scooter.

It sounds like you do have a bit going for you that you are using your own scooter and have some chance to practice. My advice would be to work on going slow in a straight line. Find the point where there is enough power to get you moving and apply some back brake as needed. Balance it right and it should be able to maintain a walking pace without losing stability. Once you have this, start turning in ever tightening patterns whilst trying to maintain the slow speed. Never mind about the staged manoeuvres in a playground, this can come in handy in plenty of real world situations.

pinkyfloyd · Super Spammer Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Karma :

carriusmaximu... · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 20 Sep 2015 Karma :

Thank you knightfall.
I did find myself coming away two easily at times because of my throttle control. And Thats when I found myself being all wobley. Although my brain is saying head up look where you want to go. When I make little mistakes I have this tendency to automatically look at the scooter as to see what I'm doing wrong. Hahaha. And Thats when i lose it.

Would you recommend me focusing on some practise in a car park before I book another CBT?
My dad will be away for a week now so for the next week I have no way to legally get my scooter to a car park. I can book a CBT for this Saturday but if i do I can't practise on my scooter before hand.
Or shall I just book it and just go for it again So there's not to much of a wait?

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

I wouldn't rush it, and do at least check out the other local schools.

Another thing, and opinions will differ on this, but I find scooters to be no easier than geared bikes for stop-start, and possibly a bit harder if you've driven a car (OK, not applicable to you).

Sure, you don't have a manual clutch to worry about, but that's the problem. With a manual clutch you're in complete and instant control over the biting point. With a centrifugal clutch, it engages and disengages with engine revs, which take some time to catch up with the throttle input. I found finding the biting point to be a bit hit or miss, leading to a few wobbles until I'd figured it out. Even with some practice, I still find crawling along easier with a manual.

So don't stress that you're having problems while doing it the "easy" way: twist-and-go isn't magic, there's still a learning curve.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

carriusmaximu... · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 20 Sep 2015 Karma :

Wow! I just rang to rebook my CBT. with the same school at first just to see how that would go as I knew the instructor.

They now say its £100 charge!!! I said the instructor said its was only £75 but she explained thats only weekdays. Well I came on a saturday and work full time. You would think this would have been mentioned!!!!!
Also they wont gurantee the same instructor. I explained I did not feel comfortable with one of the other instructors there that day as he was very blunt and shouty.
But she said that they have to give this one instructor piority over the one I had who I felt comfortable with. I do understand with CBTs is not the same as lessons, so you cant pick and choose instructors. But feel I will definitely have to pick another school now.

Although I know I am the one who made errors and needs more training (so Im not passing blame as such) I feel if the junction part was not skipped and they maybe let me redo some things on the day that I clearly needed, then maybe I would not have dropped my bike. (maybe I still would have but I would have been more at peace with that mistake)

billdawg · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 27 Aug 2015 Karma :

KnightsFall · Nitrous Nuisance Joined: 14 Oct 2014 Karma :

Rogerborg · nimbA Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :

carriusmaximu... · Two Stroke Sniffer Joined: 20 Sep 2015 Karma :

Well I paid £150 for the CBT day so thats £21 an hour.

It is a lot of money for one day, Although i respect having a comeback still means they have to do the day again and maybe a charge is neccessary, maybe this charge shouldnt be so high?

There is so much to learn in one day. For most people its very achievable so I would think they wouldn't be doing loads of comebacks all the time. Maybe giving anyone who needs a little more training a discount wouldn't hurt them.

Overall the day I experienced seemed so rushed.
Knowing what I do now I think I should have definitely spent more personal time in a carpark before booking. Being navive the company said they taught anyone any level so even those who had never ridden before. But thats the fun of learning I guess Wink

I know this will be worth the money though and I am happy to spend it. But for £100 I might as well try another school for that. As they may help me learn better than here.

There is only one other school in my area. I have rang them but they only do weekends so awaiting a reply from them.