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Police Checks - Holborn Viaduct

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JamesE90
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Police Checks - Holborn Viaduct Reply with quote
Morning all,

For those heading down Blackfriars Rd tomorrow - the kindly policeman who pulled me over this morning to check I knew the speed limit and rules on undertaking, also informed me that they will be carrying out speed checks tomorrow.

After a brief conversation he concluded that I did know the rules Rolling Eyes

He reminded me that he'll, 'see me tomorrow' - hopefully he won't see any of you.

TLDR: Be careful near Holborn Viaduct tomorrow
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tis the season.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: Police Checks - Holborn Viaduct Reply with quote
JamesE90 wrote:
the kindly policeman who pulled me over this morning to check I knew the [...] rules on undertaking

Did he?
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P.addy
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I assume he said overtaking on the left which isn't actually illegal yah...
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
So what did he think the rules on undertaking are?
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: Police Checks - Holborn Viaduct Reply with quote
JamesE90 wrote:
rules on undertaking


I would like to see those rules.

What was his take on the law, what stellar advice did he impart upon you?
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: Police Checks - Holborn Viaduct Reply with quote
JamesE90 wrote:
Morning all,

For those heading down Blackfriars Rd tomorrow - the kindly policeman who pulled me over this morning to check I knew the speed limit


20mph there, ignored by everyone including the Police from Snow Hill 300 metres away.

JamesE90 wrote:
and rules on undertaking,


Irrelevent at that point as its two lanes and a bus lane.

JamesE90 wrote:
also informed me that they will be carrying out speed checks tomorrow.


Well they are there daily.

You may wish to remind the officer that as the have been closing off the bus lane at that point for over a year they are quite likely in breach of planning law that requires planning permission if traffic is to be diverted for more than one year and a day within the boundaries of the City of London. Thumbs Up
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JamesE90
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paddy. wrote:
I assume he said overtaking on the left which isn't actually illegal yah...


He called in undertaking and did I know the rules. I did mention that the traffic in the other lane was moving more slowly... He didn't really care.
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JamesE90
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Andy_Pagin wrote:
So what did he think the rules on undertaking are?


He didn't really expand, just that it was against the Highway Code which I should check.
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Kris
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Joined: 03 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
So they solved all the bike crime in the city then....
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

Highway Code wrote:
Stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left.


Which is laughable because what is 'filtering' if not changing lanes and/or overtaking on the left? See 88, 211.

The offence would be driving without due care and attention or consideration.

That's subjective and up to him (i.e the CPS) to prove. If you get a less friendly copper tugging you, invite him (politely if you like) to get fucked. Don't feel pressured to admit or acknowledge his view of the situation. Feel free to present your own. I wouldn't be too bothered about how closely either description represents what actually happened.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
JamesE90 wrote:
Andy_Pagin wrote:
So what did he think the rules on undertaking are?


He didn't really expand, just that it was against the Highway Code which I should check.


Here you go then:

Rule 163 wrote:

Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should

<snip>

only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so

stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left


Note that's a "you should" not a "you must". That means it's for guidance and not mandatory.

The "Must Nots" are in rule 165. Left hand overtake is not on this list.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

Rule 88 says the folowing:
Quote:

Additionally, when filtering in slow-moving traffic, take care and keep your speed low.


And rule 157 says
Quote:

In slow-moving traffic. You should
<snip>

be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side.


So when does filtering become overtaking? I'd suggest that anything in a city centre on as motorcycle would be filtering and filtering is implicitly allowed, on either side.

There is nothing specific making an actual left hand overtake illegal anyway. There used to be until the mid 70's and it was rescinded. In order to prosecute you for it, the police would have to make a case for Driving Without Due Care and Attention in which they would have to prove your driving was below that expected of a competant, careful driver.
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:

And rule 157 says
Quote:

In slow-moving traffic. You should
<snip>

be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side.

151, and it also says "[do] not change lanes to the left to overtake". Shhh!

But...what's filtering?

Laugh it off. They might do you for the speed, but overtaking on the left is way too much trouble. If you choose to say anything at all it should be prefaced with "using due care, attention and consideration for other road users..." Wink
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Someone remind me, is overtaking on the inside an offence where motorway regulations apply?
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P.addy
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Andy_Pagin wrote:
Someone remind me, is overtaking on the inside an offence where motorway regulations apply?


If you aren't on 1 wheel then yes, its illegal.

Also this snippet...

Quote:
Additionally, when filtering in slow-moving traffic, take care and keep your speed low.


Is that a should or must... because I'd like to know if doing 70mph filtering during standstill traffic is legit.
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MCN
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 12:23 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: Police Checks - Holborn Viaduct Reply with quote
JamesE90 wrote:
Morning all,

For those heading down Blackfriars Rd tomorrow - the kindly policeman who pulled me over this morning to check I knew the speed limit and rules on undertaking, also informed me that they will be carrying out speed checks tomorrow.

After a brief conversation he concluded that I did know the rules Rolling Eyes

He reminded me that he'll, 'see me tomorrow' - hopefully he won't see any of you.

TLDR: Be careful near Holborn Viaduct tomorrow


Why did he victimise you? Were you filtering? Smile
Karma

A lot of polis do not know the rules. Road Traffic Police even has it own Special Branch of 'The Great Unknowing' too.

Most of them know the big popular stuff but struggle with the subtleties of the less common/more technically difficult ones.
There's a well excellently funded branch of law funded by this (Lawyers.)

But a good heads up. I will try to avoid the area on my way into Govan docks today.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.
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JamesE90
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wish I had the balls of you lot! I just nodded politely and hoped he would either:

a) Use plenty of lube and be gentle
b) Just be having a power trip and let me go

Luckily he went with b Laughing
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, intardtubes bravado. I did laugh off my last tug though, because of the "righteous indignation face" on the ridiculous puffed up prat.

You don't have to be rude or invite an attitude fail kicking, just don't be in any hurry to incriminate yourself or to believe a word that they say.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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iooi
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: Police Checks - Holborn Viaduct Reply with quote
JamesE90 wrote:
MI knew the speed limit and rules on undertaking


I hope you said that they also need to stop cyclists and question them as well. As clearly many do not understand as even when having a LH turn signal flashing. They still proceed up your LHS...
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MCN
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Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 15 Oct 2015    Post subject: Re: Police Checks - Holborn Viaduct Reply with quote
iooi wrote:
JamesE90 wrote:
MI knew the speed limit and rules on undertaking


I hope you said that they also need to stop cyclists and question them as well. As clearly many do not understand as even when having a LH turn signal flashing. They still proceed up your LHS...


Even though the above is valid in principle in PoPo practice, it's not a concern of theirs as they now have you by the scruff and the other perp/s have, by then, scarpperered on their bicycle/s. Sad
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