Fork wont separate?

[skatefreak]

Evening all.
Have a cbr 600 f3 fork which wont separate

Dust seal, retainer, oil seal and flat spacer (parts: 27, 15, 18, 8).

When pulled apart there is a cling noise of metal on metal and it stops dead.
It takes a pretty heavy knock with a mallet to get the stanchion to free off again.

I have read this can be because the spacers below it have worn and are now sliding over/under each other and jamming.

If this is the case, what can be done to separate the fork?

I have new spacers to replace the ones in there but just cant get it apart

Any ideas would be very much appreciated.

Best regards

-Jvr

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cbr600f3-super-sport-1995-usa-front-fork-f3-95-96_bighu0296f0801c_b914.gif

[CaNsA]

The bushes are jamming together as one is slipping under the other.
I had to cut the stanchion, luckily I had a spare.

Brute force will work, eventually ...

[Itchy]

Try heating the fork leg?

When my NTV forks wouldn't separate a blast with a blow torch did the trick.
____________________
Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching.

[Nemo]

Probably a stupid question, but gonna state the obvious, you have taken out number 15?
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Previously owned: Kawasaki KH125, Suzuki GP125, Suzuki GX 125, Honda CB125 TDC '83, Honda ntv 600, Kawasaki ER5, Kawasaki ZZR600, Aprilia RSV 1000 Mille
Now own: Ducati 848 evo

[skatefreak]

Will get a blow torch on it in the morning.
Does the upper spacer seat in the lower fork leg or can it move about in there?

[Chuffin Nora]

Are we still on this old chestnut?

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=306425

If so, is it the 'new' replacement leg or now the R/H leg?

[temeluchus]

removed bolt 24?
____________________
Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[skatefreak]

15 and 24, both most certainly removed!

@Chuffin - this is the original left hand fork...

It turned out the replacement left hand fork had pretty extensive damage/repair to the stanchion so was returned and figured I would have a butchers at the existing left hand fork.

I fear you are correct suggesting its corroded to buggery... the previous fork seal certainly was.

Are there any tricks to getting this out or are we looking at a brute force approach?
I'd hate to have to get my brother to buy that other fork again, cut the bottom off mine to retrieve the stanchion and hope to make a good fork out of the two heh.

Best regards

-Jvr

[dydey90]

These look very similar to my ZZR forks. I didn't follow any guide, just removed everything I could see and then used the old favourite of aggressively pulling the interior in and out until it came free. It has to drag the seals with it so it should be rather tight.
Found some sort of blue tissue under my dust seal as well that was probably put there in an attempt to conceal the leakiness.
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This post is probably not serious and shouldn't be taken literally.
Past: CBR125,ER6f NINJA 650, ZZR600 Current: VFR750

[kramdra]

Heat the top of the lower leg to about 150-200c and it will come out easily.

You will want some new bushings (parts 9/10) as when they side over each over, it will scrape the ptfe coating off - it goes soft when heated.

[skatefreak]

Already have the new bushes!
Will have to find some welding gloves!
Much appreciation!
Will have a stab in the morning.

[Chuffin Nora]

TAKE COVER!!

TEFLON-ESQUE POST INCOMING!!!


____________________
There's a fine line between integrity

[Chuffin Nora]

Right, then.
We start with the disclaimer!

I, Chuffin Nora, being just some git in just another shed, accept no responsibility for injury or death or damage otherwise attributed or so-caused by anyone following the following procedure etc., etc., etc., but if it all goes well, mine's a pint!

And so . . .
List of special tools:
1x good mate around the corner who knows his engineering onions (optional)
2x tyre levers -- about 18" is good.
2x outer races of caged bearings whose
inside diameter is slightly more than that of stanchion
(one of which must be of sufficient diameter to sit squarely atop the slider; the other to sit squarely beneath the lower yoke (though they may be the same, for all I know and can remember). These are to protect the slider and yoke.)
Brick shithouse upper musculature.


Bike planted and secure.

Except for the steering stem and yokes -- and good leg if out of the picture -- everything forward of the headstock removed (obviously your clocks and headlight and shit stay in situ --- so! , if looking from L-side of bike, everything south-west of the lower yoke! ); brake callipers securely stowed.
If good leg is out already, reinstall it, if only to keep the yokes in a state of equalibriumistic stiffness for what's to come; tighten yoke bolts accordingly.
Ensure that steering stem bearings are A-O.K. as per MOT.

Ensure that the offending leg's lower yoke's yoke-stanchion interface is surgically clean and free of burrs; also the entire stanchion clean and dry.

Extend the slider to its lowest point; manoeuvre (don't slide!) both bearing races down the stanchion to sit atop the slider; offer-up the stanchion through lower yoke as normal and through upper yoke, and keep going until there's a gap between the bottom of the lower yoke and the top of the upper bearing race sufficient to get the tips of the tyre levers (one either side) in horizontally --- BUT, not so much that the tips touch the stanchions -- very important!
Tighten yoke bolts accordingly.

Now for the serious bit.

Best done by one person because as we found, two people can't apply equal force all the time . . .
So, a tyre lever in each firm grip with the levers' tips between the bearing races . . . and push with all your might downward with a jerk or two thrown in for good measure; and I can assure you that, provided that the yoke clamps stay the course, the gap will widen, the seal giving.***
Repeat as necessary.

*** Or so we thought!
So ecstatic were we that something/anything was giving, that we didn't notice that the seal wasn't! Anyway, the long and the short of it was that the slider, in due course, appropriately slid-off.
Huzzah!
Tea and bickies and a toke or two all 'round!

No, hold up! Something's amiss!

Turns out that one of Nature's strongest glues can be the corrosive stickiness between a fork seal and its attendant housing.
So strong, in fact, that the effort involved in squeeeeeeeezing the stanchion bush past the slider bush is an utter piece of piss.
You get the picture?

But here is where it all gets a bit hazy for me, as near four years ago this was . . .
The spacer/shim sits in the stepped housing underneath the seal, and its 'ring width' is such that it overlaps the top of the slider bush; indeed, it ensures that the bush doesn't ride-up; itself held in check by the seal, which, in turn, is held secure by nothing more than the little ol' spring clip -- such responsibility!, and such is the importance of its integrity.
Now, the spacer/shim is also of such diameter that its outer edge sits directly beneath the steel band that provides the interference fit for the seal in the slider housing.

You see, what I've never quite recalled exactly, is, having squeezed past the slider bush, how did the stanchion bush make it past the spacer, that being a substantial bit of kit?
And yet the answer, as I write, becomes fookin-well obvious, dunnit?
It squeezed past the spacer, as well, and so on, through the seal. Thick, or wot?!

So, we're on the home straight . . . the two halves of the leg separated.
Now, what I really can't recall is, after having unfettered access to the seal and removing all of the fleshy stuff, just how I removed the steel band.
Though I definitely didn't grind it or drill it out, so I can only think that, adjudging there to be sufficient thickness of rubbery/plasticy coating between the band and the housing to afford a level of protection for the latter, I tappety-tapped a thin, sharp-tipped flat-blade screwdriver between the two and deformed the band by skewering inward, upon which motion it collapsed, and being relieved of all pressure, the coating easily came away as well.

Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash. Bish. Bash.
BOSH!

And the rest is history…
Yet the immediate future might be a little rosier for you
if your shed/living room/garden path is equipped with the odd bearing outer race or two; if not, go and buy, cos you'll need something that can't suddenly slip and fly off under enormous pressure.
Besides, if there's one thing more satisfying than successfully wielding tools, it's making them, especially in the way of an awesome bodge, for a job that isn't in the book.
And that, my friend, is what defines us as Homo Sapiens, the Great Toolmaker.
Cos if there's one thing that gets my goat is reading, hereabouts, "I'm not very mechanically-minded", and the like. Bollocks.
They've a human brain and human hands.
What's the problem?



Good fortune.

tl;dr
Lazy bugger!
But, yes,
perhaps I should stick to posts
more in keeping with being a

____________________
There's a fine line between integrity

[Vincent]

OP, take it to Phil at Cambridge Motorcycles, he's good with forks, 'think he charged me a tenner for the last one I couldn't get apart, I tried so hard that I ended up pulling the workbench and vice out of the wall
If you want to do it yourself, you need to heat the leg where the two bushes stick together, careful, too much heat will mark the leg.
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Space Is Deep

[BanditsHigh]

Nowhere in the post have you described taking out the damper bolt (24) ... you have taken it out but just forgotten to mention it?

All the best ... Barry

[Vincent]

[temeluchus]

You can put the stanchion in a vice (covered in rag to prevent scratchy, or wood blocks or whatevs) then use the fork slider like a slide hammer. Should come apart with a few whacks.
____________________
Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[kramdra]

Chuffin Nora, nice idea, I will probably try this next time.

[skatefreak]

Everything was out but a little blow torchin, decent vice and a somewhat stronger buddy and out it came eventually!

Stanchion looks good, lower fork a little gnarled but I have the spacers, new seals etc so will throw it all together tomorrow night and see how it goes.

It looks like as the spacers were sliding over one another lots of flakes of I'm assuming Teflon were peeling off and they are everywhere. Explains why the previous oil seal lasted about 32 seconds.

Will get some more oil and flush/clean the whole assembly with clutch cleaner before re-assembling.

Am seriously happy I had less of a ball ache than you chuffin! Bike is currently suspended from garage roof on the centre stand using washing line. The joys of starting the job on a Sunday evening when the only place open is a bleeding Morrisons!

Much appreciation for all the input guys!

-Jvr

[Chuffin Nora]

[kramdra]

[BanditsHigh]

[Vincent]