New house...kitchen advice?

[Dalemac]

Hi All,

I'm about to move into a new house, and am already planning to redo the kitchen over the next few months. It's an open plan kitchen/living room, and I am wanting to hide as many appliances away as possible, to keep things nice any tidy.

I haven't done a kitchen refurb before or even had integrated appliances, so just looking for some general layout knowledge so i can start planning things properly.

I'm looking to purchase an integrated fridge/freezer 50/50 split, to fit in a 60cm*60cm available gap (when flooring edging is removed).

Can anyone tell me if a big integrated fridge/freezer is placed into a huge cupboard, or do you just attach front doors and side panels to the freestanding unit?

I'm also considering moving the oven into a high cupboard unit to further increase space. Will a hob (preferably gas) fit above an integrated dishwasher?

Also any comments on suppliers to use/avoid would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dale
____________________
YBR125 -> GPZ500S -> SL1000

[Nexus Icon]

There are fridges, dishwashers, etc. available which have doors to match a range of cabinets but they're often bought as part of a kitchen suite.

A friend is currently having all sorts of trouble getting doors to hide existing appliances in his kitchen. He wants to use off-the-shelf carcasses and doors but everything he sketches out leaves gaps where standard doors don't match standard appliance sizes.

He's at the point now of going to somewhere like Magnets to get the kitchen planned out to suit new appliances which come with doors, just to save all the aggravation.
____________________
Greetings from Shitsville!

[Wonko The Sane]

I was advised by a good friend to use IKEA for kitchens and I regret not taking his advice.

avoid Wren, if there's any problem they have two responses:

1) 'Our contract is only for supply of the kitchen' when in actual fact they arranged the install with a local 'fitter'

2) 'Our kitchen planners are not professionals' ok, so why am I paying them to design me a kitchen that doesn't fit?

so, back on track,

it's a matter of planning movement from start to finish of your kitchen, for example going from fridge to prep to cook to wash.

yes a gas hob will fit above any appliance as they simply sink into the worktop and don't protrude much below - it's more common to fit them above a fitted oven. You'll need gas supply and electric supply (for the igniter)
____________________
Looking to pass your CBT / Bike tests in Bury Lancashire? try www.focusridertraining.co.uk Would recommend.
They're also on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Focus-Rider-Training/196832923734251

[Dalemac]

Thanks, i'll heed that advice. Just looked at IKEA and they seem to be quite cheap and look good.

The hob is currently above the oven, but I want to move that to torso level in a floor to ceiling unit to increase space.

Moving the hob over the dishwasher looks like a good idea then.

Any knowledge on the integrated 50/50 fridge freezer fitment?
____________________
YBR125 -> GPZ500S -> SL1000

[Liono]

I refitted a kitchen a few years back using Ikea units and was impressed by the quality of the products. Obviously you can get higher quality units at a higher price, but for what Ikea charge for them they seemed to be the best option for us. They are also designed to fit the range of Ikea storage products, so things like drawer dividers and so on should just slot in nicely.

I did find that the service void at the back of the units was quite shallow so there wasn't much room for pipes behind the units, nor was there much spare space if you needed to trim the cabinets down to fit uneven corners or walls. We could work around this, but worth considering if this might be an issue.

I have a feeling that the openings for fitted appliances in the Ikea units are slightly non-standard too, so you might either need to purchase appliances from Ikea or adapt the cabinets slightly to fit standard units. There's plenty of information about this online though, so probably worth doing a bit of research.

[Rockhopper]

Ikeas kitchen don't have the service void at the back of their cupboards like must other types of units have.
Having said that I've got an Ikea kitchen and I'm more than happy with it.

[Codemonkey]

My mums partner was a joiner / kitchen fitter and he suggested to stay well clear of Ikea kitchens due to the lack of space behind the carcasses for the services, though I can definitely see the appeal of being able to pop along to one of the stores and pick up whatever bits you need rather than having to place an order for everything with one company and wait for it all to turn up..

To be completely opposite to Wonko The Sane, I opted for a Wren kitchen and fitted it all myself, I posted at the time here:

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=224681&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
____________________
Test Passed 10/05/2011 Current bike: XJ6-N

[Rogue_Shadow]

Heard good things about Wickes.
Not the first name you would think of when thinking about a new kitchen, but having been in a couple I would recommend having a look.

[DrDonnyBrago]

I have a wickes kitchen, with all "built in" appliances.

All of the appliances are essentially freestanding appliances with doors stuck on, although all appliances other than the washing machine are also screwed into various parts of the kitchen cabinets. Washing machine is completely freestanding with a door attached.

[Tracey Suntan-King]

We fitted a kitchen from Howdens in a previous house. It looked the business. You need a trade account though. They have a nice selection of styles. Id use them again.

However, in this house, We bought two secondhand lots of Magnet units, previously fitted in domestic kitchens. It took Sid some jiggling and swearing but we saved over £3,000 and managed to sell the surplus units on eBay. We used new integrated appliances but had enough units to be able to adapt them to fit.

There are secondhand or ex-display bargains to be found if you've got the nerve/tools.
____________________
Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right

[weasley]

First - my experience: a couple of years ago we bought and ground-up renovated a house. This included designing, selecting and overseeing installation of a kitchen in an open-plan kitchen/dining/living space.

Integrated appliances - you generally have to buy the "integrated" variant of such appliances. These have unfinished front doors and appropriately-located displays/controls that will accept the door panels of whatever kitchen you are fitting. We got an integrated dishwasher and microwave (mounted at about chest height) but went for a properly showing-off, stainless steel, American-style fridge freezer. We 'concealed' the washing machine and tumble drier in a utility room.

If you are concealing a f/freezer you need to be aware of the door hinge arrangement. Many regular fridge doors require a 50 mm gap to the side of the fridge to allow the door to open fully. Some have hinges designed to open the doors within their own footprint, so can be close-fitted to units.

I was dead-set on having a high-level oven mounted in a unit, but in the end we got a 90 cm range cooker and love it. However, if you only have space for a regular 60 cm cooker, I would deffo go with an integrated oven with separate (wider) hob. I would also go with induction over gas. That's from someone who was a massive fan of gas, but am now evangelical about induction hobs. Mostly because they are as controllable as gas but approximately googolplex times easier to clean and use. Yes, you need special pots and pans, but these are easy to find. If anything does spill over, you can wipe it up there and then, as you continue to cook. They easily mount over other units and are basically flush with the work-surface. And dat piano-black finish... We also got a custom-made glass splashback made to go behind the hob, colour-matched to the wall paint. Make sure the wiring and fusing to the kitchen is up to the job though - a 5-ring induction hob with two fan ovens and a grill can make a hefty load!

When siting your hob, think about extraction. We were only ever going to have an extractor that actually extracted (to outside) rather than a recirculator (which filters and recirculates the air). It means you have to put the cooker on an exterior wall (or one where you can run an extraction duct to an exterior wall) but for a kitchen/living space we wanted as much as possible to keep odours down, and full extraction offers better air flow. The only time we get any issues is when searing steaks or doing any really hot grilling.

Someone I work with is using IKEA's kitchen design app and has noted the lack of service space, plus he says that their units are the same depth as their worktops, to there's no scope for an overhang on the worktop over the front.

Worktops - we went for Silestone, a kind of 'synthetic' stone composite. It is easy to clean and pretty resistant to stains, but is hard and will chip or break cups/glasses etc if dropped even a little.

Flooring - we used Polyflor vinyl planks in an oak effect - they are warm, look just like wood, are resilient and are easy to clean. If they should need repairing then this can be done fairly easily.

Think about lighting - mean and moody does not work in a kitchen; you want lots of light in the right places, and diffuse if you can (rather than stark spotlighting). We have 8 pendants hung in 2 rows of 4 for main lighting and LED strip lighting under the high level cabinets. This helps with light on the work surfaces but also looks good if the kitchen is being used as a social space for partying, with the main lights off. If possible wire under-unit lighting into a room light switch and get the wiring run into the walls before fitting the units.

Have a think about how the kitchen demarcates from the living room. We put a 'return' peninsular jutting into the room - this is effectively the missing 'wall' of the kitchen and also acts as a breakfast bar and additional working space - the worktop overhangs about 300 mm onto the 'living' side and we have some bar stools underneath.

Think about futureproofness. Will you want a smart fridge? Or anything else that might want ethernet connectivity? If so, run it now. Also have lots and lots of wall plugs, in the right places.

One thing we got wrong was where to put mundane stuff like hand towels and a bin; we never thought about it and consequently have tea-towels draped over the oven door handle and a free-standing bin just kind of sat there - learn from my mistake.

Have a look into the options for corner units. There are plenty of slidey-spinney devices that allow you to get stuff in and out easily, but we felt they robbed a lot of space, so just went for plain corner units with a door on each face - less-frequently used stuff goes in these.

We got our kitchen from Benchmarx. They supply only to the trade, but will work with you to design and select everything so long as it gets ordered by a tradesman - builder, fitter, joiner etc. They tend to have showrooms at Travis Perkins locations.

We bought our appliances from Euronics - they were happy to negotiate on price and we got a good deal since we were ordering en masse.

We have been using ours for a couple of years now and aside form the small practical issues mentioned, having designed and decided everything in there, it all just works for us. There's always a plug nearby, there's enough space for everything and we're very happy with it.
____________________
Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[hedgehugger]

I've an integrated oven at about waist - chest height. It's great, no more bending down. Cupboard underneath and one overhead, neither suffer with any oven heat problems (don't keep food in them, just oveny stuff and general kitchen detritus).

The hob sits over a cupboard. Doesn't get too warm in there. Never actually tried to touch the hob from underneath when it's on though. I guess with enough clearance a dishwasher would be ok underneath.

I was always a fan of gas, but OMG, the convenience of a ceramic hob, so much cleaner, no more black bottomed pans, somewhere to dump all the junk you bring home when the hobs not on

I originally looked for an American style fridge, but couldn't find one with enough freezer space, so I have huge things, free standing, not integrated.

[grr666]

I would only fit integrated oven and hob personally. Have done integrated appliances before but they are a faff
especially washing machines. +1 on benchmarx, I worked in their Dagenham branch for a while, they are owned
by Travis Perkins, but the EXACT same kitchens
are on sale at wickes (also TP group by the way as is city plumbing) If you look at the packaging of the facias
they have 2 different range names printed on them. A good feature of their carcasses is that they have a 50mm
service gap behind them and a full 18mm thick back panel. Plus 25 year guarantee, and soft close doors and drawers
as standard. Also the benchmarx carcasses come assembled so it saves quite a bit of time on installation.
Their appliances aren't particularly good value though. Better sourcing those elsewhere.
____________________
Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

[Wonko The Sane]

[Dalemac]

Thanks for the input and stories everyone. Here was me thinking it would be easy - rip everything out, move a couple of services, buy new units, fit myself, job done.

Appears to be a lot more complicated than that. I've taken the decision to source a cheap used freestanding fridge/freezer which will do me for a few months until early next year when i can get the time and money to think this through in detail, Strikes me as something I shouldn't be doing in a hurry!
____________________
YBR125 -> GPZ500S -> SL1000

[Stalk]

Gas hob over integrated dishwasher is a bad idea as you need somewhere for the gas pipe and an accessible shut of tap, not much, if any space behind. Integrated fridges look nice but due to design the tall ones are only 550ish wide, more money for less storage

[Ichy]

We had an all integrated kitchen but couldn't really see the benefits. It would have been a pain to source replacements and fit them if anything broke.

Last year we completely gutted the kitchen and fitted a new one from Ikea, I had used they before and was happy with the quality. The design software is dead on. I probably spent two weeks changing stuff to give us what we wanted but it was easy to do. It generates an order list that you take in store or they can access your design in the shop.

Service was spot on. Delivered when they promised. I had a couple of bits missing from delivery but a phone call and they were posted out without a problem. 2 months later, when I got around to fitting, I noticed another bit missing. Another phone call and it was in the post FOC. Two damaged doors? Collected and replaced FOC. Even after finishing they will take back any unused bits and refund the full value.

The other benefit is that the carcasses are standard sizes. If I decide to update the kitchen then I only really need to replace the doors.

The service space was fine for me. I just moved a couple of pipes around to make them fit and used the space under the cupboards for the larger waste and heating pipes. Took me about two weeks including doing the wiring, plumbing, underfloor heating and tiling. I did need someone to help me lift some of the bigger cupboards. and I got someone in to fit the worksurface, cost about £60.

[https://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l41/marki_03/Armstrong/P8060526_zpsz1rmb4jn.jpg

https://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l41/marki_03/Armstrong/P1010005_zpsltb3zlqq.jpg
____________________
https://www.metacafe.com/watch/1972097/how_to_behave_on_a_forum/

[Riejufixing]

EDIT: Oh, bugger, I've been had. Time for retribution Plopped ham and chalk time...