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Fixed dual cameras black box project

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Val
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PostPosted: 04:21 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Fixed dual cameras black box project Reply with quote

Mounted PDM60 power distribution module. https://pdm60.com/

I have used the headlight fuse cable to get positive voltage for ignition trigger signal wire of PDM60. Glued PDM60 to the back of the fender under the seat storage place with 3M patch. Now I have fuseless power suplied for heated clothes, sat nav and 2 cameras. Mounted permanently at the back on the grab rail my cheap 720p GoPro £20 clone. I bought cheap Firefly 6S 4k camera for £60 Black Friday deal, when it arrives will mount it permanently in the front under the fairing.

Black box fixed dual cameras project almost done Very Happy

https://www.gearbest.com/action-cameras/pp_239152.html

Cost of the two cameras: £80.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:04 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you bought a small programmable computer to do the job of a 12v relay and two fuses?

What benefit does this wonder-device provide over more conventional wiring?

Genuinely interested.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be interested to see pictures of the setup and riding footage from your setup. Don't you dare start vlogging with it though Laughing

stinkwheel wrote:
What benefit does this wonder-device provide over more conventional wiring?


Looks more like a convenience thing. I think I'd find it easier to find somewhere to mount this securely than I would to mount a relay securely. The relay tends to be quite bulky by the time you've got spades attached to the pins, and it's far too tempting to just wedge it in somewhere semi-secure.

However I'd rather lay trust to fuses rather than a computer.

And at £130 (first dealer I saw, may be cheaper) I think I'd rather go the old fashioned way with a relay.

Their instructional video (https://pdm60.com/instructional-video/) states that you can't freely attach accessories to the bike's wiring loom. I'm not sure I believe this. You power the devices from the battery, and use a relay to detect when the bike is turned on. There's nothing in that process that the 'canbus' could detect and therefore shutdown.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wired LEDs directly into my CANBUS wiring and they worked. What did I do wrong? Thinking

The delay before going live / live after switch off is an interesting feature, to be fair. I might pay up to about £10 for one.
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 11:54 - 11 Dec 2015; edited 1 time in total
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just had read up on it
Its basically a programmable distribution box to replace seperate relays and fuses
with 6 individually programable outputs giving a total 60A of output.
£130 from nippy normans

There's a 7 second delay before it enables devices after switch on
The instructions do warn about the constant 50mA draw which could pull a battery down if
the bike is left unattended for any length of time.
An overcurrent condition on any output will shut that output down until a power cycle
when it will try again (and shut down again if the fault persists)

Yeah I get it, nifty I spose, but wouldn't be in a hurry to buy one
but then I don't have a shit load of stuff bolted on the bike.

setup and info pdf:
https://pdm60.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/PDM60-General-Installation-and-Operation-Manual-052213-1.pdf
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esullivan
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm considering this for my Crossrunner. The one-piece seat has very little room under it, and this is smaller than a fusebox and completely sealed, so I could mount it anywhere.

At the moment, the only thing I have connected to the bike is an Oxford 12v socket, which is wired directly to the battery, but I have a motorcycle dashcam the kids gave me that I haven't used yet and I'm also considering a heated vest. Is it worth £130, plus (given my level of skills) a fair amount of swearing and fumbling trying to install it? I'm still undecided.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

For £130 (which is roughly the price difference between one of those and a modular, microrelay fuse box with 6 outputs of roughly the same size), I'd be prepared to do a fair bit of learning and fiddling.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
The delay before going live / live after switch off is an interesting feature, to be fair. I might pay up to about £10 for one.


The drawback for that feature, though, is a 50mA constant draw (pun fully intended).

Things like this exist:
https://www.nortonicsfoxtam.co.uk/pdf/21%20UNI-1K%20UNI-2K.pdf/

Although that particular relay doesn't really seem the best for automotive applications.
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jimspeed
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.leisurebatterysystems.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d83_durite-mpower-merlin-vsr_relay.html
Is what I'd use if I didn't want to dig into the loom for extra power supplies..just needs connection to battery and away to go. Obviously needs fused feed somewhere but that's no biggie.
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jimspeed
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.leisurebatterysystems.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d83_durite-mpower-merlin-vsr_relay.html
Is what I'd use if I didn't want to dig into the loom for extra power supplies..just needs connection to battery and away to go. Obviously needs fused feed somewhere but that's no biggie.
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Dave_R
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PostPosted: 23:47 - 11 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimspeed wrote:
https://www.leisurebatterysystems.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d83_durite-mpower-merlin-vsr_relay.html
Is what I'd use if I didn't want to dig into the loom for extra power supplies..just needs connection to battery and away to go. Obviously needs fused feed somewhere but that's no biggie.


Do any of those things exist for Lithium packs rather than lead-acid? I got halfway in the design for a Lithium version but lost interest and hooked everything up to the main battery anyway. Would be nice to have a small Lithium pack to power accessories without draining the vehicle's main battery.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:28 - 12 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your accessories are drawing more power than your alternator can produce, they might as well not be there.

Leisure batteries are for stuff you want to power from the vehicle with the engine off.

Adding an extra battery doesn't add extra power, it just adds extra storage. If your accessories are going to flatten your battery, they'll also flatten your leisure battery before it has a chance to charge-up.

I'd use one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Relay-3-Fuse-Base-Kit-4-5-PIN-Flasher-Relays-ATO-Fuses-Holder-Socket-Box-/180739111864
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 11:17 - 12 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

Adding an extra battery doesn't add extra power, it just adds extra storage. If your accessories are going to flatten your battery, they'll also flatten your leisure battery before it has a chance to charge-up.


If you need more powah just get multiple pushbike dynamos on the back wheel..... Laughing
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Dave_R
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 12 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
...
Leisure batteries are for stuff you want to power from the vehicle with the engine off.
...


That's exactly what I'm after, not just for my bike but my car too. For example, keeping a dash cam recording indefinitely or powering an entertainment system when I'm parked up.
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jimspeed
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 12 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
If your accessories are drawing more power than your alternator can produce, they might as well not be there.

Leisure batteries are for stuff you want to power from the vehicle with the engine off.

Adding an extra battery doesn't add extra power, it just adds extra storage. If your accessories are going to flatten your battery, they'll also flatten your leisure battery before it has a chance to charge-up.

I'd use one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Relay-3-Fuse-Base-Kit-4-5-PIN-Flasher-Relays-ATO-Fuses-Holder-Socket-Box-/180739111864

Ah I wouldn't use it to connect another battery rather just as an automated power switch box kinda like the expensive one in op.
I just used a fuse jumper from the horn circuit on the z750 to switch a 4 pin relay.
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Val
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PostPosted: 16:13 - 14 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
So you bought a small programmable computer to do the job of a 12v relay and two fuses?

What benefit does this wonder-device provide over more conventional wiring?

Genuinely interested.


The relays are unreliable. They have moving parts and sooner or later fail.

The most of the benefits are if you have more then one circuit to connect.

Say you have 4 circuits like me: sat nav, heated clothes, two cameras. You will need 4 relays and 4 fuses. That means a big fuse box. A lot of place needed and hazzle to mount the 4 relays. INB4 not good idea to use 1 relay with 4 fuses because of the load. It will produce arc and too much current surge. Sparks may fly. Do not want that under my ass near the battery and the tank hapenning Laughing

This gadget is more safer, reliable, smaller and simpler to install with less wires. It is designed for lazy people and that is exactly me Very Happy

Also I hate changing fuses. This one has electronic fuse on each line. It works automatically.

Granted it is expensive, but if I change bikes I can just unbolt it and put it on the next bike.
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Last edited by Val on 16:37 - 14 Dec 2015; edited 3 times in total
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smegballs
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 14 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:

The relays are unreliable. They have moving parts and sooner or later fail.


Auto relays are pretty damn ubiquitous and critical parts of pretty much any car on the road these days. Also automotive relays are simple, standard parts that are available cheaply pretty much anywhere and can be swapped out in seconds.

I mean I'm all for MOSFETs and solid-state shit but the MTBF of auto-relays must be pretty bloody long.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 14 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Val wrote:
INB4 not good idea to use 1 relay with 4 fuses because of the load. It will produce arc and too much current surge. Sparks may fly. Do not want that under my ass near the battery and the tank hapenning Laughing


One word.

Bollocks.

Let me break that down for you.

A £1.49 automotove relay is good for 30 amps. A microrelay good for 20A.

So say you went for a full heated jacket, trousers and grips. Two cameras and a mobile phone charger.

85w jacket, 40w trousers and 30 for the grips.

A USB3.0 will draw 10w max so three of those.

So. All of that on all at once at maximum settings makes 185 watts total. You're looking at 15.4 Ampres.

Now a big bike will have 2x 55w headlights, 2x5w tail lights 2 x 10w brake lights and another 5 x 5w bulbs in the dash and dash lights. So 165 watts, 13.75A. All through the same fuse in the lighting circuit. Frequently with no relays at all. So that lot all hits the battery as soon as you turn on the ignition anyway.

So with a single microrelay controlling any accessories you care to attach, sparks will not fly. Assplosion will fail to occurr. You could run the whole lot through a single 17A fuse and not a single fuck given.

You know your motorcycle has an electric fuel pump INSIDE the petrol tank right?
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Val
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the update for the poor man 4k Ultra High Definition UHD action cameras dual set up.

I hate to spend money for electronics. Its all made in China anyway. Here is my poor man cameras project cost around £100 for two cameras including cables. This does not include PDM60. Youcan replace it with cheap relay and a fuse as pointed out by Stinky Laughing

My £60 Firefly 6S arrived after 3 weeks.

https://www.gearbest.com/action-cameras/pp_239152.html

I had old clone of the clone £20 1080p one too. So here is my black box permanent two camera set up.

The only expensive bit is PDM60, but you can use a relay and a fuse.

I have mounted the 4k camera in front and the other on the back.

It is permanet mounting. Have used soldering iron to make a nice holes in the waterproof cases for both so that I can plug USB cables. Than sealed with some silicone.

Both cables are zip tied and go under the seat where I have two ports USB socket mounted and connected to the PDM60. After I turn the ignition on PDM69 gives me nice 7 seconds delay before turning the power for the USB socket on.

Both cameras are set up in DVR mode, means you turn power they start recording, turn of power stops recoring.

Kind of black box set up. Both have 32Gb cards and are set up to record 5 minute clips in never ending cycle mode.

Because the cameras are sealed I use laptop to connect and download videos:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/638/23593472760_dbd254ca72_h.jpg

Back camera:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5705/23260969194_a951a49bb5_h.jpg

Front camera Firefly 6S:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/623/23593490180_8ca9526282_h.jpg

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5675/23261035964_3e142d5d0c_h.jpg

Now I need to find simple 4k UHD video editor. Apparently Movie Maker does not supports higher resolution Sad

Edit: found free brilliant 4k UHD video editor. This one works out of the box after installation no messing needed.

Shortcut video editor: https://www.shotcut.org/bin/view/Shotcut/Download

There is no help. Here is all you need to know for simple editing:

File Open -> drag on timeline.

Click Save to save your new project.

Drag the vertical marker to go somewhere.

Click L to play. Click L again to play faster.
Click J to play backwarsd. Click J again for faster.
Click K to stop playing.

Click S to make a cut.

Here is what I do to remove some unwanted part:

Click S to make a cut in the begining of the unwanted part. Go to end of the unwanted part by playing it and click K to stop there. Than Click S again. Right click mouse pointing somewhere over unwanted part and choose "Lift". You will see brown gap where unwanted part was. Again right click and choose "Remove".

Now you have one wanted part and next to it your next wanted part. Drag any of the two and make them overlap a little. This way you create smooth transition between parts to avoid jumping.

After you've finished all editing click Save to save the porject.

Click "Encode" tab and you will see:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/641/23262357613_faa446dcc5_o.jpg


Click encode file and chose a name say "MyCut1.mp4".

Go drink cofee. Even short encoding will taje some time like 30 minutes.

Enjoy your ultra high definition UHD 4k new video Very Happy

This high resolution 2886x2160 makes 6 minutes video 1.4Gb which takes 230 minutes to upload on youtube, because youtube creates 8 videos to cover all lower resolutions too.

Links with sample 4k videos to follow, after 240 minutes Laughing
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Last edited by Val on 23:58 - 21 Dec 2015; edited 3 times in total
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Matt B
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PostPosted: 16:06 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not the most attractive permanent camera setup. Would have been much nicer using mini bullet type cameras (along the lines of a Roadhawk Ride) fitted under the headlight fairing/next to the numberplate.
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Val
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt B wrote:
It's not the most attractive permanent camera setup. Would have been much nicer using mini bullet type cameras (along the lines of a Roadhawk Ride) fitted under the headlight fairing/next to the numberplate.


I agree. Find me cheap 4k bullet cameras and I will do it Thumbs Up

Having said that I have noticed cars staying away from my back after I have the big ugly camera pointed at them on my rack. Or I may imagine it?
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Andy9934
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PostPosted: 19:29 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much footage do your cards hold? If you are knocked off and injured you might want it on a 15 minute cycle if possible, in case it's not possible to turn it off in 5 minutes.
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Val
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy9934 wrote:
How much footage do your cards hold? If you are knocked off and injured you might want it on a 15 minute cycle if possible, in case it's not possible to turn it off in 5 minutes.


Make sense. Actually the default set up I have on Firefly apparently is 15 minute cycle which takes 2.6Gb so fr my 32 GB card that makes roughly 12x15mins videos before overwrite. And it turns off automatically on ignition off.

The disappointment here is the resolution. After looking at the recorder files it appears that Firefly 6S DOES NOT have 4k, it has:

2880 x 2160- 24fps
2.5k - 30fps
1080p - 30/60 fps
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iooi
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want to cut the time down to no more than 5 mins. Mine in the car cycles at 1 min.
Smaller files = less chance of them getting corrupted due to power dropping etc.
Sending the bike down the road could lead the the file you need being unviewable. At least with something like a 1 min cycle you will still get the build up.
Also makes for ease of transfer and editing.

But why 4K? Where/what are these files for?
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Val
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 21 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

iooi wrote:
But why 4K? Where/what are these files for?


My thinking was better resolution more details.

Anyhow here the sample video finally has uploaded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_BABNgNZxA

and I am not impressed. It shakes like hell because the camera is mounted on the mirror. Need to find better mounting point...
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