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Lending a bike for 2 months: insurance options?

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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 11:45 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Lending a bike for 2 months: insurance options? Reply with quote

Hi all,

I’m considering lending a bike to a friend for two months.
I am the registered keeper of the bike and my current insurance does not cover any other riders.
What can we do with respect to insurance if I am going to lend this person the bike for 2 months? This person is not related to me and does not live at my same address.

    1) Can this person buy an insurance on the bike, in his name only, even if I am still the registered keeper, and even if I would keep my insurance? In other words, the vehicle would be insured twice – is this a problem? This way, if he were to have an accident, my insurance would not be affected, right?

    2) Alternatively, can I add him as a named rider? Would this be considered fronting? It could be argued this person will be the main rider but for two months only. If he were to have an accident, would my insurance be affected even if I have nothing to do myself with the accident?


Thanks!
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be easier for him to speak to a broker and arrange his own insurance - I've done this before (admittedly many years ago so things may have changed now...).

You need to be prepared to lose your mate though, if he stacks it and you quibble about costs. Best to agree a 'you bin it, you've bought it' value beforehand, write it on a piece of paper and both of you sign and date it.
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
It would be easier for him to speak to a broker and arrange his own insurance - I've done this before (admittedly many years ago so things may have changed now...).

You need to be prepared to lose your mate though, if he stacks it and you quibble about costs. Best to agree a 'you bin it, you've bought it' value beforehand, write it on a piece of paper and both of you sign and date it.


I am aware of this risk.
I am more worried about ensuring that, if he has an accident, my insurance will not be affected. Do you know if this is the case, if he sorts out his own insurance? Thanks.
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TheArchitect
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borg will likely correct this if I'm wrong but if your mate bins it and causes damage to 3rd party and he is found to not have appropriate cover then the claimant can default to your policy to cover the costs and you have no say in it.

Also agree you should have something in writing between you to show that he in in temporary ownership of the bike so if it does come down to it you can prove you are not personally liable.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 12:20 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to ensure no liability you have to cancel your insurance and get him to get his own.
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Doovy
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

chris-red wrote:
If you want to ensure no liability you have to cancel your insurance and get him to get his own.


Indeed. Possibly even sign the V5 over to him for this period too.

No joke.
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doovy wrote:
chris-red wrote:
If you want to ensure no liability you have to cancel your insurance and get him to get his own.


Indeed. Possibly even sign the V5 over to him for this period too.

No joke.


Ok, so please help me understand. Let's say this person gets his own insurance, while I keep mine (because I want to accrue the full year of no claim discount). Let's say that he gets in an accident.

What's the worst that can happen, insurance-wise?

On what grounds would my insurance be affected and how? Would the third party damaged by my mate hold my insurance and his jointly liable? Would his insurance pay out but then try to recover the loss from mine? or what? I'm just trying to understand what could possibly happen, and why. Thanks.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get something in writing from your friend in which they assert that they are properly insured to use your vehicle. Otherwise, in the event that (for whatever reason) they're not, there are potential legal repercussions for you (permitting use without insurance or suchlike). A verbal confirmation is probably all the law technically requires, but it's a much more comfortable [police interview / court-appearance] if you've got a signed bit of paper in your hand.
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:
Get something in writing from your friend in which they assert that they are properly insured to use your vehicle. Otherwise, in the event that (for whatever reason) they're not, there are potential legal repercussions for you (permitting use without insurance or suchlike). A verbal confirmation is probably all the law technically requires, but it's a much more comfortable [police interview / court-appearance] if you've got a signed bit of paper in your hand.


I appreciate your point, but that's not exactly what I had asked. Let's say he sorts out his insurance. Let's say he shows me copy of the certificate, gives me a copy I keep in a safe, and signs a declaration with his own blood that said insurance is valid Smile
In other words, let's say the fact that he has insurance is not in dispute in any way. My question is: if he has an accident, can my insurance be in any way affected? If yes, how and why?
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TheArchitect
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:


What's the worst that can happen, insurance-wise?



Worst case your insurance foots the bill, you lose your NCB and have the claim on your insurance record for at least 5 years. This however, can only happen if your mate's insurance pushes back or refuses to take responsibility. That can happen if they find out there is another policy covering the bike - cheeky but possible.

The onus is on you as the registered keeper to ensure your mate is fully covered and legally allowed to ride the bike. If anything occurs the police and insurance will come to you first so it's on you to prove your innocence before they will move to talk to your mate.

Also, having something in writing between you two will help with speeding/parking tickets etc should it be needed.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 12:56 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:
I appreciate your point, but that's not exactly what I had asked. Let's say he sorts out his insurance. Let's say he shows me copy of the certificate, gives me a copy I keep in a safe, and signs a declaration with his own blood that said insurance is valid Smile
In other words, let's say the fact that he has insurance is not in dispute in any way. My question is: if he has an accident, can my insurance be in any way affected? If yes, how and why?

The consensus from a quick Google is that if there are two insurance policies present on a vehicle, any claim will be split between the two insurers. So, yes, if you also have a policy on the vehicle, you stand to lose if your mate has a crash.

I guess, technically, the vehicle is insured to be driven by a list of drivers. You are not insuring the people, you're insuring the bike. 2 policies appears to mean each insurer shells out 50%.

Penultimate post in this thread, for example: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3332524
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Londoner2015
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:


I guess, technically, the vehicle is insured to be driven by a list of drivers. You are not insuring the people, you're insuring the bike. 2 policies appears to mean each insurer shells out 50%.

Penultimate post in this thread, for example: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3332524


Even if the two insurance policies cover different drivers? Shocked
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:
Even if the two insurance policies cover different drivers? Shocked

That was exactly the question being asked in the linked forum.

Want a more comprehensive answer?
(1) Ask your insurer
(2) Wait and see

Possibility is that if your mate stacks it his insurer pays, but if it's stolen then the claim is 50/50. I'm just guessing now. Insurers will always try to pay out as little as they have to, so expect a lot of arguing and stress. IME insurers will often agree a 50/50 split in the event of a shunt between two parties to simplify the admin. No real reason this would operate any differently.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheArchitect wrote:
Borg will likely correct this if I'm wrong but if your mate bins it and causes damage to 3rd party and he is found to not have appropriate cover then the claimant can default to your policy to cover the costs and you have no say in it.

Also agree you should have something in writing between you to show that he in in temporary ownership of the bike so if it does come down to it you can prove you are not personally liable.


TL-DR it all

^^^ this is the law. Even if some cnut steals it your insurers will be liable for damage/injury to a 3rd party.

Plus. Parking/Speeding tickets and cetera will be 'yours' unless your mate (ex-mate by then) will fess up to them being his doing.

I wouldn't get into it at all. Unless he/she has their own insurance. (And are currently riding motorcycles too.)

It is a risk because motorbikes are dangerous. Razz

Ask your insurer they will probably suck a lot of air through their teeth. Smile

Best of luck on the plan al the same. Thumbs Up
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheArchitect wrote:
Borg will likely correct this if I'm wrong

arry.

The worst case I can see is that matey-mate gets insurance, shows the cert, then cancels it, knowing that the bike will still be on the MID. Or, his underwriter cancels it because they find that the bike is already covered.

Then he stacks it into a bus queue of nuns and kittens.

OP's insurance then has to pick up the bill and can chase OP for not limiting their liability.

All this is pretty unlikely, mind.

I'd ask your broker about putting him on your cover, and the costs and implications. I know it's not very gangsta to go legit, but it might be the simplest way.
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techathy
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm borrowing a friends bike long term, he's out of the UK for 18 months. We wrote up a contract where I'm responsible for the bike over this 18 month period & that if I write off the bike he's due a new replacement (the bike is 7 months old). He then canceled the insurance & I have my own insurance (which is on an new for old basis for write off purposes).

Unfortunately such an arrangement is a bit of pain in the neck to sort out. I've not bothered with it for 2 months
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iooi
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 18 Dec 2015    Post subject: Reply with quote

Londoner2015 wrote:
(because I want to accrue the full year of no claim discount). .


So buy a cheap heap of junk. Transfer your insurance onto that. Then let you mate insure the bike he is going to keep.....

Just how many years NCD do you have?
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